View Poll Results: Should they change Magneto's race

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  • Yes: Make him Black

    38 20.43%
  • No: Keep him Jewish White

    148 79.57%
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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    You're trying to invoke the Rwandan genocide to win an argument over a comic book character. How is that different?
    Perhaps everyone should take a step make and realize we are talking about fictional characters, not real people. If I went over the line, I apologize.

    But this whole ''changing Magneto's origin is disrespectful to the Holocaust'' is BS and I do think some of the stuff here did seem to trivialize the Rwandan genocide. We are talking about a fictional character, not a real genocide victim.

    We are talking about something that is ultimately trivial and does not matter in the grand scale of things, so let's keep that in mind.

    The big problem I have is I hate contrived writing that exists solely to maintain a sliding time scale and that is what is being done here.

  2. #422
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    This is literally the first time I've ever heard that TAS was "crucified" (or any derivative of that word) for the choices with Magneto.

    The show has largely been embraced, even for decades after. All available evidence I see points to that claim being completely bogus. I'd also like a citation on that.
    It wasn't. The claim is that if they change the origin to avoid hurting people's feelings (like what with happened to X-Men TAS), there will be extreme backlash.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    It wasn't. The claim is that if they change the origin to avoid hurting people's feelings (like what with happened to X-Men TAS), there will be extreme backlash.
    Cite some evidence for the backlash please?

    You seemed to indicate that this had happened in the past as well, but that doesn't appear to be the case. If the argument is that people will backlash today, I jsut have to point out....the bar for that in 2019 is EXTREMELY low.
    Last edited by Theleviathan; 09-17-2019 at 07:17 PM.

  4. #424
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    And people's neighbors deciding to murder them in Rwanda is what exactly?

    You are trying to invoke the Holocaust to win an argument over a comic book character, how is that not trivializing.

    I should stop debating you, you invoking the Holocaust over such a trivial argument shows a lack of context on your part and I think its super offensive.



    I was being facetious.




    What is your evidence that people who suffered through the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides, somehow reacted vastly different from Holocaust survivors?

    I think a lot of people would react to genocides in similar ways across time and place because a lot of humans would react in similar ways in the face of such horror.

    This is rather ridiculous, you may as well be trying to argue which serial killer is the worst. They are all bad in their own way, but victims of Ted Bundy are not that different from other serial killer victims, that does not trivilzed them, it makes them all human.

    Again maintaining a sliding time scale is what ruined comics, do not repeat that mistake on the big screen.
    The one being EXTREMELY offensive towards the Holocaust is you. The Holocaust was the first one where Democracy brought in the attacking force. It was the first one where civilians not only did nothing, but were complicit in the annihilation of the Nazi's victims. Where people watched a democratic government completely collapse into fascism, and where rights were stripped away one by one. The Star of David markings represent something that never happened in Cambodia (a revolutionary attack), Rwanda (A full-scale military coup), Soviet Union (Culling by a dictatorship) or China (culling by an authoritarian state).

    Those events are not interchangeable, even if the victims hurt and bled and died the same.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    It wasn't. The claim is that if they change the origin to avoid hurting people's feelings (like what with happened to X-Men TAS), there will be extreme backlash.
    Or maybe no one would care, outside of a few fanboys?

    Do you think really think Jewish groups really care about what Magneto's origin is in the MCU film? Do you honestly think a fictional murderous supervillain back story is important to anyone besides some fanboys? No one outside of these types of message boards cares that much about Magneto's back story and if they change it, the only people who will care are people who write clickbait articles. There will be no big outcry beside from the usual fanboys.

    And I still hate BS tropes that exist solely to maintain a sliding time scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The one being EXTREMELY offensive towards the Holocaust is you. The Holocaust was the first one where Democracy brought in the attacking force. It was the first one where civilians not only did nothing, but were complicit in the annihilation of the Nazi's victims. Where people watched a democratic government completely collapse into fascism, and where rights were stripped away one by one. The Star of David markings represent something that never happened in Cambodia (a revolutionary attack), Rwanda (A full-scale military coup), Soviet Union (Culling by a dictatorship) or China (culling by an authoritarian state).

    Those events are not interchangeable, even if the victims hurt and bled and died the same.
    But we are talking about a fictional character, not real Holocaust survivor, you are one brining in the Holocaust to win an argument over a fictional character, what matters fiction or reality. This is really offensive. You are using the Holocaust to win an argument over pop culture, this very privileged first problem arguments. Magneto's back story is not going to have any real effect on the world and there a billion more important things to worry about in the world than this. I just post here for fun, maybe you should put fictional characters in their proper place.

    Also what evidence do you have that people who went through different genocides reacted differently from one another? Are you saying a Holocaust survivor cannot relate to a Rwandan genocide survivor or vice versa?
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-17-2019 at 07:24 PM.

  6. #426
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Or maybe no one would care, outside of a few fanboys?

    Do you think really think Jewish groups really care about what Magneto's origin is in the MCU film? Do you honestly think a fictional murderous supervillain back story is important to anyone besides some fanboys? No one outside of these types of message boards cares that much about Magneto's back story and if they change it, the only people who will care are people who write clickbait articles. There will be no big outcry beside from the usual fanboys.

    And I still hate BS tropes that exist solely to maintain a sliding time scale.
    The issue is that the change could be seen as antisemitic, especially in a time where white supremacy and the fight against it is front page news. Many of the white supremacist groups are also violently antisemitic. The backlash could very easily overshadow the movie, and put the microscope to it like what happened with Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The issue is that the change could be seen as antisemitic, especially in a time where white supremacy and the fight against it is front page news. Many of the white supremacist groups are also violently antisemitic. The backlash could very easily overshadow the movie, and put the microscope to it like what happened with Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
    I doubt Jewish groups will care all at and Nazis are not going to use Magneto having a different back story to be more violent, they do not need something trivial to be violent when the alt-right promotes George Soros conspiracies all the time.

    And would making Magneto black really be a win for the racists? I doubt they would see it as such. The same alt-right fanboys will complain, no matter what.

    And I still dislike contrived tropes that just maintain a sliding time scale.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Or maybe no one would care, outside of a few fanboys?

    Do you think really think Jewish groups really care about what Magneto's origin is in the MCU film? Do you honestly think a fictional murderous supervillain back story is important to anyone besides some fanboys? No one outside of these types of message boards cares that much about Magneto's back story and if they change it, the only people who will care are people who write clickbait articles. There will be no big outcry beside from the usual fanboys.

    And I still hate BS tropes that exist solely to maintain a sliding time scale.



    But we are talking about a fictional character, not real Holocaust survivor, you are one brining in the Holocaust to win an argument over a fictional character, what matters fiction or reality. This is really offensive. You are using the Holocaust to win an argument over pop culture, this very privileged first problem arguments. Magneto's back story is not going to have any real effect on the world and there a billion more important things to worry about in the world than this. I just post here for fun, maybe you should put fictional characters in their proper place.

    Also what evidence do you have that people who went through different genocides reacted differently from one another? Are you saying a Holocaust survivor cannot relate to a Rwandan genocide survivor or vice versa?
    Magneto is way bigger than a "murderous" supervillain. Him, Wolverine, and Storm are the biggest X characters in history.

  9. #429
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    The first scene of x1 launched the marvel super hero genre (other then blade).

    It is literally one of the greatest scenes in fiction and the movie that broke the marvel curse.

    At that point Magneto became locked in personality as a Yekki whom survived the worst humanity had to offer during one of the worst events in history.

    Your going to have to sell me hard for see him otherwise.

    In a perfect world, the MCU era would be Michael Xavier as headmaster and Storm as field leader so we can tell new stories.

    (come to think of it, do magneto's / professor's x background like they did with incredible hulk. In the opening credits that's close enough to the fox xmen original story, but not enough to dwell on it so we can tell new stories).

    In an era where antisemitism is on the rise, and as the generation that was there slips away into the afterlife, we need two characters to remain connected to ww2.

    Captain America
    Magneto

    Otherwise we will forget.

  10. #430
    Spectacular Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Magneto should be a Holocaust survivor. I'll accept nothing less.

  11. #431
    Incredible Member GrandEleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Those events are not interchangeable, even if the victims hurt and bled and died the same.
    But here's the thing: as far as character development: yes they are.

    At the end of the day, the event was chosen not for the subtler nuances. It was chosen for the broadest sense of what it was: a window into the darkest side of humanity and how they could treat those who were different. That _simple_ message can be told with numerous tragedies in history.

    I'm actually all for finding a way to keep Magnetos origin. I think it simply fits so perfectly and has become him so completely that I hesitate to have them change it. But the idea that it's somehow impossible to draw from another horrific act and have it shape those beliefs in a similar way is just silly. The Joker can have multiple origin stories and multiple interpretations and still be the Joker. It's not some impossible feat to have a new interpretation of Magneto.

    Do I want to see the same origin in Magneto? Absolutely. He's the best villain in all of Marvel and why mess with perfection?
    Is it offensive to change it? Pure nonsense.

  12. #432
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Sure a lot of digital ink being spilled over something we don't even know is happening.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  13. #433
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Sure a lot of digital ink being spilled over something we don't even know is happening.
    More like...

    "Most Likely Will Never Happen..."

  14. #434
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Things are starting to get a bit personal in here, let's try and keep it civil everyone. Thank you.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  15. #435
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    More like...

    "Most Likely Will Never Happen..."
    Don't put it past companies to leak this type of stuff for feedback if they should go through with it

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