View Poll Results: Should they change Magneto's race

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  • Yes: Make him Black

    38 20.43%
  • No: Keep him Jewish White

    148 79.57%
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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    No, they watered down everything as to not offend parents. That's a different solution, one that if the MCU used, people would burn them at the stake for. We accept it because there wasn't an answer: either Magneto's origin would change, or the show would never air.
    You really think the general public will boycott the film if he is not a Holocaust survivor or will it just be the same old fanboys will complain about it? I doubt the Anti Defamation League will be up in arms over this change.

    I think survivors of the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides could easily affect someone like Magneto the same way the Holocaust would.

    And still, no one has given a compelling reason for making Magneto immortal besides maintaining the sliding time scale. Its like people want to take the convoluted writing that ruined the comics and apply to the films? That sounds like terrible storytelling, it's putting blind fandom over cohesive storytelling.

    If not being a Holocaust survivor did not ruin him in the cartoon, I do not think it will ruin him in the films. Also, we already had that type of Magneto for 19 years on film, which is why I do not mind a different take, it does not negate anything that was done in the past.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-17-2019 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #407
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    The only way for Magneto to have lived this long and for it to feel true to his character narrative --is for him to have discovered a way to steal the youth and vitality of other mutants.

    Despite his lovable sympathetic anti-hero status, Magneto is still a single-minded, megalomaniacal, ends-justify-the-means revolutionary. I don't think he'd ever acquiesce "leadership" of mutantkind, and would definitely eat babies if it meant he'd live longer and stronger to "protect" his people.

  3. #408
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    You really think the general public will boycott the film if he is not a Holocaust survivor or will it just be the same old fanboys will complain about it? I doubt the Anti Defamation League will be up in arms over this change.

    I think survivors of the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides could easily affect someone like Magneto the same way the Holocaust would.

    And still, no one has given a compelling reason for making Magneto immortal besides maintaining the sliding time scale. Its like people want to take the convoluted writing that ruined the comics and apply to the films? That sounds like terrible storytelling, it's putting blind fandom over cohesive storytelling.
    The general public will crucify it if they censor Magneto's origin, like they did for the show.

    Treating every massacre of people the exact same is why human's never learn from them. The Holocaust was different from every other genocide. So was the Cambodian Massacre. So were the Soviet Cullings. Treating them as interchangeable does nothing but trivialize them, which is a massive mistake.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  4. #409
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    like they did for the show
    what show?

  5. #410
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    what show?
    X-Men Animated Series. Fox Censors wouldn't allow them to use Magneto's origin as being from the Holocaust, so they changed it to an unnamed massacre in Eastern Europe.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #411
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    X-Men Animated Series. Fox Censors wouldn't allow them to use Magneto's origin as being from the Holocaust, so they changed it to an unnamed massacre in Eastern Europe.
    Ah yeah, the animation took a light touch.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The general public will crucify it if they censor Magneto's origin
    I just don't remember anyone crucifying anything.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post

    I see you suggested the Rwandan genocide as an alternative to Magneto's current origin. And you're telling me I have terrible ideas lol. Sure, let's take out most of the things that make Magneto's special. In 50 years, they'll have to think about another genocide to replace the Rwandan genocide. We're gonna run out of genocide.
    I really, really hate the notion of simply switching genocides up. Sure, the trauma is very much similar, thoughts of revenge equally so, and survivor's guilt obviously. I'm just afraid that changing genocides gives the notion that genocides are interchangeable if not handled with enough tact. Rwanda is not the same as Europe is not the same as Anatolia.

  8. #413
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Ah yeah, the animation took a light touch.



    I just don't remember anyone crucifying anything.
    Look at the social backlash from... "right wing" groups regarding Captain Marvel and Black Panther. Now add in a layer of antisemitism.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #414
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Look at the social backlash from... "right wing" groups regarding Captain Marvel and Black Panther. Now add in a layer of antisemitism.
    So there wasn't an outcry in the 90s when TAS aired a soft Magneto origin, but you're assuming there will be one. There probably will be, no matter what happens. It's the age of the internet.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The general public will crucify it if they censor Magneto's origin, like they did for the show. .
    Citation needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Treating every massacre of people the exact same is why human's never learn from them. The Holocaust was different from every other genocide. So was the Cambodian Massacre. So were the Soviet Cullings. Treating them as interchangeable does nothing but trivialize them, which is a massive mistake.
    And you do not think human beings who suffered genocides are so different from each other, they cannot relate to each other or feel the same things that happen to them? Genocide is a crime no matter what, one genocide is not somehow better or worse than another, they are horrific events and the way it affects people will be similar across the world because humans are humans, is there any group of human that be to react to an event like this in a different way? I think the different responses would be from the individual people and rather than groups of people reacting differently from each other. Share experiences are what makes us human.

    Its can come off pretty offensive to suggest that not maintaining Magneto's old origin is somehow offensive to the memory of the horrors of the Holocaust, that's taking fanboyism pretty far. The fact that you are trying to invoke the Holocaust to win an argument over a comic book character, can come off as thoughtless. Maybe rethinking that logic is a good idea.

    It's rather trivializing to say the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides are ''watering things down''.

    And again you cannot answer the question on why making Magneto immortal would be a compelling story choice in its own right. I would far more willing to concede if that these arguments were based on anything rather then ''nerd nostalgia''.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    I really, really hate the notion of simply switching genocides up. Sure, the trauma is very much similar, thoughts of revenge equally so, and survivor's guilt obviously. I'm just afraid that changing genocides gives the notion that genocides are interchangeable if not handled with enough tact. Rwanda is not the same as Europe is not the same as Anatolia.

    That's not my point, my point is human beings are similar to each other then we think. The fact that people who through a genocide would have similar emotional experience shows humans from different cultures and backgrounds would likely react something like a genocide in the same way across the globe. This there any evidence that people who went through different genocides were affected differently based on the time and place it happened or does the horror of this type of event transcended that and show shared human experience on how people would react to that?
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-17-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  11. #416
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Citation needed.



    And you do not think human beings who suffered genocides are so different from each other, they cannot relate to each other or feel the same things that happen to them? Genocide is a crime no matter what, one genocide is not somehow better or worse than another, they are horrific events and the way it affects people will be similar across the world because humans are humans, is there any group of human that be to react to an event like this in a different way? I think the different responses would be from the individual people and rather than groups of people reacting differently from each other. Share experiences are what makes us human.

    Its can come off pretty offensive to suggest that not maintaining Magneto's old origin is somehow offensive to the memory of the horrors of the Holocaust, that's taking fanboyism pretty far. The fact that you are trying to invoke the Holocaust to win an argument over a comic book character, can come off as thoughtless. Maybe rethinking that logic is a good idea.

    It's rather trivializing to say the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides are ''watering things down''.

    And again you cannot answer the question on why making Magneto immortal would be a compelling story choice in its own right. I would far more willing to concede if that these arguments were based on anything rather then ''nerd nostalia''.
    The offensive post here is yours, trying to claim that every genocide is interchangeable. The circumstances of each genocide was significantly different. The Holocaust was the one that Democracy failed, creating a situation that is completely unlike any other. If you don't understand that, that's on you.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  12. #417
    Master of Magnetism Magneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Well until you can make a case on why turning Magneto into an immortal is compelling in its part, not just a convoluted reason to maintain a sliding time scale, I will maintain that I think all these ideas are just bad. Why not just Magneto a Highlander and Xavier would have to cut his head off to kill him at that point?

    The thing is no one has given a reason why Magneto should be immortal, besides maintaining a sliding time scale, immortality is a big thing to tack on to a character and you guys do not seem to care whether it is a compelling choice in of itself, so it just seemed contrived. If you cannot make a compelling argument for it besides the fact that you want to maintain a sliding time scale, I wonder if some people are choosing fanboyism over good storytelling.

    Except in X-Men TAS, they did they change his origin, look at the first appearance of the character in that series, he lost his family in some fictional Eastern European Civil War, did that ruin the cartoon for you?

    I do not hate fantastically stuff in comics and do not think comics have to be 100 percent realistic. But I hate contrived writing that only exists to maintain a sliding time scale and I think that type of writing is one of the worst things to happen to comics, keep it out of the movies.
    I never said he should be immortal. Where did you get that?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    You really think the general public will boycott the film if he is not a Holocaust survivor or will it just be the same old fanboys will complain about it? I doubt the Anti Defamation League will be up in arms over this change.

    I think survivors of the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides could easily affect someone like Magneto the same way the Holocaust would.

    And still, no one has given a compelling reason for making Magneto immortal besides maintaining the sliding time scale. Its like people want to take the convoluted writing that ruined the comics and apply to the films? That sounds like terrible storytelling, it's putting blind fandom over cohesive storytelling.

    If not being a Holocaust survivor did not ruin him in the cartoon, I do not think it will ruin him in the films. Also, we already had that type of Magneto for 19 years on film, which is why I do not mind a different take, it does not negate anything that was done in the past.
    Your opinion. I can tell you right now that the answer is no. Genocides are not interchangeable, nor are murders, rapes, etc. Also, most popular characters in comics have been the same since their creation which usually goes well over 20 years. As for Magneto, it clearly negate every jew/holocaust related stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    I really, really hate the notion of simply switching genocides up. Sure, the trauma is very much similar, thoughts of revenge equally so, and survivor's guilt obviously. I'm just afraid that changing genocides gives the notion that genocides are interchangeable if not handled with enough tact. Rwanda is not the same as Europe is not the same as Anatolia.
    Exactly.
    Last edited by Magneto; 09-17-2019 at 06:51 PM.

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    The offensive post here is yours, trying to claim that every genocide is interchangeable. The circumstances of each genocide was significantly different. The Holocaust was the one that Democracy failed, creating a situation that is completely unlike any other. If you don't understand that, that's on you.
    And people's neighbors deciding to murder them in Rwanda is what exactly?

    You are trying to invoke the Holocaust to win an argument over a comic book character, how is that not trivializing.

    I should stop debating you, you invoking the Holocaust over such a trivial argument shows a lack of context on your part and I think its super offensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    I never said he should be immortal. Where did you get that?
    I was being facetious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Your opinion. I can tell you right now that the answer is no. Genocides are not interchangeable, nor are murders, rapes, etc. Also, most popular characters in comics have been the same since their creation which usually goes well over 20 years. As for Magneto, it clearly negates everything jew/holocaust related stories.
    What is your evidence that people who suffered through the Rwandan or Bosnian genocides, somehow reacted vastly different from Holocaust survivors?

    I think a lot of people would react to genocides in similar ways across time and place because a lot of humans would react in similar ways in the face of such horror.

    This is rather ridiculous, you may as well be trying to argue which serial killer is the worst. They are all bad in their own way, but victims of Ted Bundy are not that different from other serial killer victims, that does not trivilzed them, it makes them all human.

    Again maintaining a sliding time scale is what ruined comics, do not repeat that mistake on the big screen.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 09-17-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  14. #419
    Master of Magnetism Magneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    And people's neighbors deciding to murder them in Rwanda is what exactly?

    You are trying to invoke the Holocaust to win an argument over a comic book character, how is that not trivializing.

    I should stop debating you, you invoking the Holocaust over such a trivial argument shows a lack of context on your part and I think its super offensive.
    You're trying to invoke the Rwandan genocide to win an argument over a comic book character. How is that different?

  15. #420
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    This is literally the first time I've ever heard that TAS was "crucified" (or any derivative of that word) for the choices with Magneto.

    The show has largely been embraced, even for decades after. All available evidence I see points to that claim being completely bogus. I'd also like a citation on that.

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