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  1. #61
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    They actually succeeded in making me hate Clark. Thankfully it was temporary.

    I must be the lone reed here because I'm not getting "DC/Didio/Bendis is trying to erase Jon" vibes that seems to be prevalent in these parts.
    You're not alone. I pretty much zero idea where anyone is getting this from. Some people on here are talking about a reboot, but that makes so little sense given the fact that Jim Lee himself felt the need to let everyone know that there isn't a reboot coming. And this was said when Bendis and Synder were already signed on.

    You want my opinion? DC's been planing this identity reveal for a while now. It seems like it's a new direction that they've been interested in taking Clark for a while regardless of lawsuits. Their first attempt didn't work out primarily due to the things surrounding it like the aesthetic, the marketing for the story, and the story itself. But that doesn't really stop them from doing it again, does it?

    Want an example of them failing with an idea and then succeeding once they try it again very shortly after? Jon Kent. Yup. People forget but DC created the biological son of Superman and Lois Lane for continuity back in the New 52 in the form of Jon Lane Kent. He failed pretty hard, but then a few short years after his death Jon Sam Kent was made, and he's been a great success.

    They just switched up the approach. The same seems true here. And if Jon Sam Kent can be the success he's been despite the failure of his previous incarnation, then there's no real reason to think this can't turn out far better than Truth. And what's funny is that both ideas break rules of Superman. Similar to how Clark getting married or telling Lois his identity had rules against them.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 09-16-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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  2. #62
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Just when I thought I couldn't hate what Bendis is doing with the Superman comics anymore, he one ups my exceedingly low expectations of him. On top of retconning the natural cause of Krypton's destruction, sending Jon Kent into space with his deranged grandfather only to return 7 years older and then send him into the 31st Century, turning Lois and Clark's relationship into a long distance booty call, having Lois kiss Superman in public and the possible implication that Rogol might be a Kryptonian related to the House of El due to being affected by Kryptonite, Bendis has to have another 'Hold my beer' moment in how much he can change the Superman status quo for the sake of change.

    I would have thought Truth was an obvious example of why revealing Superman as Clark Kent to the public was a bad idea. Most fans hated the storyline, sales tanked harder than ever across the Superman family comics and it was essentially the death knell for New 52 Superman as the canon version of the character. Hell Tomasi and Jurgens had to come up with Superman Reborn's convoluted retcons (which I do like as a story but can definitely see its execution was flawed) to fix the problems left behind by this reveal. And now it's utterly pointless because Bendis has swanned in wanting to repeat it all over again because he likes telling stories of superhero's identities. In fact, revealing a character's identity publicly was one of Bendis' go to stories at Marvel. He did it with Daredevil, he did it with Iron Man in Avengers Disassembled, he did it all the time on Ultimate Spider-Man where Peter was unmasked in front of random people, he made Luke Cage and Jessica Jones into public heroes during his Avengers run and I saw a Reddit post which claimed Bendis created the idea for Spider-Man to reveal his identity during Civil War. So this is nothing new for Bendis either.

    My point is this isn't being allowed by DC because they really want another go at doing this story or they're interested in exploring the ramifications of Superman revealing his identity. I'm almost certain this is happening because Bendis wants to rehash another one of his 'superhero gets outed to the public' stories and Didio is fine with it because he doesn't like stories about superheroes' personal lives. Which is an archaic attitude given that the focus on the heroes' personal lives was a major factor in the rise of Marvel Comics that DC tried to fully implement in the Post Crisis era. Superman having the Clark Kent identity is a core tenant of the character's longevity. The duality of the Clark Kent/Superman identity isn't just popular with comic fans, it holds cultural significance in Western culture. As he's one of the few major heroes who still has a secret identity, Bendis being allowed this much leeway with a character as iconic as Superman is more than unfair. Especially since it will be retconned when he finishes his run anyway.
    Last edited by Lvenger; 09-16-2019 at 12:24 PM.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    You're not alone. I pretty much zero idea where anyone is getting this from. Some people on here are talking about a reboot, but that makes so little sense given the fact that Jim Lee himself felt the need to let everyone know that there isn't a reboot coming. And this was said when Bendis and Synder were already signed on.

    You want my opinion? DC's been planing this identity reveal for a while now. It seems like it's a new direction that they've been interested in taking Clark for a while regardless of lawsuits. Their first attempt didn't work out primarily due to the things surrounding it like the aesthetic, the marketing for the story, and the story itself. But that doesn't really stop them from doing it again, does it?

    Want an example of them failing with an idea and then succeeding once they try it again very shortly after? Jon Kent. Yup. People forget but DC created the biological son of Superman and Lois Lane for continuity back in the New 52 in the form of Jon Lane Kent. He failed pretty hard, but then a few short years after his death Jon Sam Kent was made, and he's been a great success.

    They just switched up the approach. The same seems true here. And if Jon Sam Kent can be the success he's been despite the failure of his previous incarnation, then there's no real reason to think this can't turn out far better than Truth. And what's funny is that both ideas break rules of Superman. Similar to how Clark getting married or telling Lois his identity had rules against them.
    Why would they want this identity reveal though? This feels more like a Bendis initiative to me, than something DC wants. You lose a huge chunk of the Superman supporting cast with the Daily Planet gone in exchange for what? Now obviously the situation is different here. Supes becoming President means he will most likely have a whole new type of supporting cast that will still allow him interactions with others besides Batman and the JL. But just straight up ditching the secret identity forever and making Clark Superman 24/7 is stupid because it means Clark canít interact with other people on a personal human level anymore.

  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Why would they want this identity reveal though? This feels more like a Bendis initiative to me, than something DC wants. You lose a huge chunk of the Superman supporting cast with the Daily Planet gone in exchange for what? Now obviously the situation is different here. Supes becoming President means he will most likely have a whole new type of supporting cast that will still allow him interactions with others besides Batman and the JL. But just straight up ditching the secret identity forever and making Clark Superman 24/7 is stupid because it means Clark canít interact with other people on a personal human level anymore.
    I would like to think, if Bendis is really going into this, he knows full well it's not going to stick.

    But yeah, this does kind of seem like more of a Bendis thing then something I see DC pushing.

  5. #65
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    Unless someone at Newsarama has a source on the inside of DC, it looks like they are making a lot of assumptions based on those solicitations.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deku View Post
    Unless someone at Newsarama has a source on the inside of DC, it looks like they are making a lot of assumptions based on those solicitations.
    Assuming you're correct, there aren't many alternatives given what the solicit says. Either it's Bleeding Cool's rumour or Superlad's theory that Superman will say he and Lois have been married all this time and Lois' marriage to Clark Kent was a front. Which I would equally not be a fan of if that's the direction Bendis went in.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    Assuming you're correct, there aren't many alternatives given what the solicit says. Either it's Bleeding Cool's rumour or Superlad's theory that Superman will say he and Lois have been married all this time and Lois' marriage to Clark Kent was a front. Which I would equally not be a fan of if that's the direction Bendis went in.
    Yeah that's infinitely worse in my mind. The identity is a genie that can be put back in the bottle because, well, DC cares a decent bit about Superman.

    Lois, though? They'd be fine with everyone thinking she used Clark as a front because "she chases the powers" or something. I don't know, I don't see how this is a good look for Clark.

    Part of what sold the marriage for me was that she fell in love with both identities but chose Clark, cementing that ultimately it's him as a person and not a cape that she adores. Sure, ultimately we know that's still true as fans, but it's essentially a middle finger to the spirit of that arc in universe and that really sucks.

  8. #68
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Why would they want this identity reveal though? This feels more like a Bendis initiative to me, than something DC wants. You lose a huge chunk of the Superman supporting cast with the Daily Planet gone in exchange for what? Now obviously the situation is different here. Supes becoming President means he will most likely have a whole new type of supporting cast that will still allow him interactions with others besides Batman and the JL. But just straight up ditching the secret identity forever and making Clark Superman 24/7 is stupid because it means Clark can’t interact with other people on a personal human level anymore.
    Short answer? Freshen the character up for the eye of a modern audience I imagine. Give Clark an honest shot a this status quo that modern audiences seem far more accepting of.

    I don't know why people keep saying that you'll lose the Daily Planet or his supporting cast there. You just have to remember that both Jimmy and Lois still work and frequent there. They, along with the fact that it used to be an extremely important part of his life, allow for it to be revisited by him often.

    Continuing to speak in general terms, think of it like Smallville. In post-crisis Clark didn't live there anymore, but Ma and Pa were there, and sometimes Lana and Pete, it was made a point to keep it as part of his life.

    Speaking more specifically to this run, Bendis, Fraction, and Rucka have seen to it that the Daily Planet runs deep between all the books. It's now owned by what is effectively Metropolis' new Post-crisis Lex Luthor (in the sense that she's a cast member and aspect of the city while also being a foe Superman can't take down just yet) Leon, Trish Q is effectively Pre-crisis Lois Lane insofar as her trying to expose something about Clark, you've got Perry, and you've got Ms Goode who is basically a mirror for what Clark was.

    That's not even mentioning the fact that Action Comics is primarily about the Daily Planet even before its about Clark or Superman. And, again, Lois and Jimmy both work there. Lois is obviously his wife and partner, and Jimmy seems to be reclaiming his crown as Superman's actual best friend.

    Plus, there's the VERY clear relationship being set up between the press and the soon-to-be president. There's quite a lot to mine here.

    Lets be real, this is the most love Superman's supporting cast and his city have gotten since the freakin 90s.

    The way I look at it is, Bruce/Batman doesn't have to work at the GCPD for it to be important to his myth or show up frequently. Bruce doesn't have to walk the streets in Gotham for the city to be active and alive and realized as a character all its own, yes? That's why it's great that Action Comics functions more as a Metropolis book before it does a second Superman book.
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Oh don’t misunderstand, I get how the Daily Planet can still be important to this upcoming status quo. It’s why I’m not bothered by it. My issue is with people who want Superman’s secret identity to go away without replacing it with anything. That was the main downfall of Truth, in addition to making people mad by how they had Lois out him, was they took away the Daily Planet and so he was reduced to just Batman and WW for his supporting cast. I’m hopeful that won’t be repeated here.

  10. #70
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Oh don’t misunderstand, I get how the Daily Planet can still be important to this upcoming status quo. It’s why I’m not bothered by it. My issue is with people who want Superman’s secret identity to go away without replacing it with anything. That was the main downfall of Truth, in addition to making people mad by how they had Lois out him, was they took away the Daily Planet and so he was reduced to just Batman and WW for his supporting cast. I’m hopeful that won’t be repeated here.
    I feel you.

    Truth's real downfall when it came to how it went about this was how action focused they made the whole thing. Clark never put up roots or gave an example of what a Tuesday could've been like when he was doing anything other than punch evil in the face. When building a status quo that you intend to see redefine a character, it's usually helpful if you, well, you know, define it. "Man on the run" only gets you so far when it's not the express raison d'etre of you character. And, as you say, they also deliberately cut him off from all of his supporting cast in an effort to isolate him. All of that is why it felt like he was Superman 24/7.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 09-16-2019 at 10:37 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Wonder if Bendis is intending to dispose of the secret identity trope in DC.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I feel you.

    Truth's real downfall when it came to how it went about this was how action focused they made the whole thing. Clark never put up roots or gave an example of what a Tuesday could've been like when he was doing anything other than punch evil in the face. When building a status quo that you intend to see redefine a character, it's usually helpful if you, well, you know, define it. "Man on the run" only gets you so far when it's not the express raison d'etre of you character. And, as you say, they also deliberately cut him off from all of his supporting cast in an effort to isolate him. All of that is why it felt like he was Superman 24/7.
    You're correct about Truth. They forced Clark out of the way to have him be Superman 24/7, even when he was powerless and that was uninspired writing that infuriated everyone reading at the time. I think what I want to see is regular Clark deal with the fallout of the reveal, his interactions with people, particularly Perry and Jimmy. What about his new boss? How will that go seeing she's a leader of an underground mafia running most of the organised criminal activity in Metropolis.The man has a life outside of being Superman. We already have him punching bad guys nonstop in Superman, no need to have Action become yet another book about that part of his life. I want Action to remain focused on the down to earth aspects of his life with sprinkles of him being Super.

  13. #73
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    You're correct about Truth. They forced Clark out of the way to have him be Superman 24/7, even when he was powerless and that was uninspired writing that infuriated everyone reading at the time. I think what I want to see is regular Clark deal with the fallout of the reveal, his interactions with people, particularly Perry and Jimmy. What about his new boss? How will that go seeing she's a leader of an underground mafia running most of the organised criminal activity in Metropolis.The man has a life outside of being Superman. We already have him punching bad guys nonstop in Superman, no need to have Action become yet another book about that part of his life. I want Action to remain focused on the down to earth aspects of his life with sprinkles of him being Super.
    The biggest problem with TRUTH was the fact that DC had done a very poor job of fleshing out Clark Kent's civilian life and his relationships beyond his relationships with Batman and WW. They did start to make strives just before TRUTH of giving New 52 Supes a stable status quo,then flushed it all down the drain. Revealing Clark's identity to the world is the type of story you only do when you have apples in the apple cart. The New 52 era had very few apples in said cart so when they tipped said cart,it became painfully clear it wasn't an actual story. It was a cheap stunt to shock with no real substance.

    At least this time ,Bendis (and Jurgens and Gleeson before him) did a very good job filling Supes apple cart and fleshing out who Superman and Clark Kent are in this era of the character. it doesn't mean the story itself is guaranteed to be good of course, but at least there is a very good chance there's actually a worthwhile story to tell here and not just an empty stunt. Time Will tell.
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  14. #74
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Doesn't work IMO. If Superman were to be outed, he'd just go be someone else somewhere else. He wouldn't carry on as mild mannered reporter "Clark Kent", he would pick up a new identity for when he's not operating as Superman. The whole point of "Clark Kent" is to give him stability so he can rest his head at night, and walk amongst us. If that is gone...there's no reason.

    Superman prolly has multiple identities, just incase.
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  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Doesn't work IMO. If Superman were to be outed, he'd just go be someone else somewhere else. He wouldn't carry on as mild mannered reporter "Clark Kent", he would pick up a new identity for when he's not operating as Superman. The whole point of "Clark Kent" is to give him stability so he can rest his head at night, and walk amongst us. If that is gone...there's no reason.

    Superman prolly has multiple identities, just incase.
    I've never understood this reasoning. Clark Kent is who he is, Superman what he does. But he grew up as Clark, it can't be a fake out or something to mingle with humans.

    Superman's Clark Kent, a good guy from Kansas, only with incredible powers.

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