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  1. #31
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    -7 books sold 100,000 copies.
    -Avengers sold only 2,000 less copies of Justice League, and Savage Avengers sold only 2,000 less than that.
    -Silver Surfer Black doing well at #34 with 44,002 copies. It outsold GOTG and Thanos.
    -I think Captain Marvel is the best Carol Danvers series since Ms. Marvel ten years ago.

  2. #32
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Also, as it pointed out in the top of the comichron list, Valkyrie #2 was overshipped. (along with Gwenpool and Ms Marvel) Looks like it was by about 50%, so it would have been about 28-29kish without that. However, #2 did also get a second printing, so it probably actually sold a bit better than that, i mean Marvel doesn't overship for no reason, the expectation is that some of those extra issues will sell and boost sales of future issues. I think for it, and for Loki which also got an overship with issue one and has also been getting second printings, it will be around issue 4 or so that we really know how it's doing.
    Marvel overships to inflate their numbers and push books they like or don't think were ordered enough -- which is rarely true. Sadly, most comic stores just throw the extra copies on the shelf somehow expecting them to miraculous sell through. I've often wondered why Marvel doesn't stipulate those extra issues should be GIVEN away. Far more of a chance to pick up more readers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    A few notes, WOW the dropoff for Aero. 70k to 15k. ouch. I remember in the thread for last month it was said Aero didn't get an overship, but SOMETHING must have been done to drastically inflate the numbers for issue 1. It looks like it, and Sword Master, are both dead in the water as far as North American sales go, though to be fair, I think those are aimed more at Asian markets, which may keep them afloat.

    Future Foundation... yeah you'd think that even if it halved numbers for issue 2, that would still place it above the 15k cancellation danger zone, so it may have seen a huge dropoff for issue 2...

    and yeah, looks like Captain Marvel is actually one of the few books that is GAINING readers. very rare for that to happen.
    It gained speculators, not readers. Same thing with Marvel Presents. There were alleged 1st appearances of new characters that had the speculators in a frenzy.

    Some people said Aero wasn't overshipped, and others reported it was overshipped. I think it's pretty clear it WAS overshipped.

    Aero, Sword Master, and Agents of Atlas are editorial favorites right now. They'll get far more of a chance than other books.
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  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    You can't honestly believe that Marvel would spend the thousands of dollars it would cost to print the extra copies JUST to have minor bragging rights on middle of the pack books? seriously? The books they do it with are consistently books that they feel are struggling and frequently the overships do pay off with increased orders of subsequent issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Lots and lots of variants for Aero #1 including some high ratio ones. First issue of first ongoing of 'hot' character and all that. The book is an English language reprint anyway so yes it is already printed in Asia, but the NA reprints will probably still have to justify the cost.

    I am curious where the uptick happens, because it just might have to do with speculators, I mean 'readers', who are interested in some new character.
    I was curious about this as well, so just went back through comichhron's charts, looks like it was around May that the uptick began. It was following the usual attrition pattern and was at 26,086 in May, then June was 31k, July was 33k, and now August has it at 38k.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-16-2019 at 10:12 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    It gained speculators, not readers. Same thing with Marvel Presents. There were alleged 1st appearances of new characters that had the speculators in a frenzy.

    Some people said Aero wasn't overshipped, and others reported it was overshipped. I think it's pretty clear it WAS overshipped.

    Aero, Sword Master, and Agents of Atlas are editorial favorites right now. They'll get far more of a chance than other books.
    I dunno about AoA, cause that's a purely American made comic, but Aero and Sword master have pretty big safety nets in that they sell like gangbusters in their home country. I could see them cutting them to digital only if nothing else cause, those books basically cost Marvel nothing because netease writers and artists are the one working on them.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    yeah cutting them to digital only may be something they do there, i mean it's basically free money that way, eliminating the cost of printing, since all they have to pay for is translation costs and the minimal cost of prepping it for being read digitally. And it may be able to do double duty of attracting people to their digital store.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    Marvel overships to inflate their numbers and push books they like or don't think were ordered enough -- which is rarely true. Sadly, most comic stores just throw the extra copies on the shelf somehow expecting them to miraculous sell through. I've often wondered why Marvel doesn't stipulate those extra issues should be GIVEN away. Far more of a chance to pick up more readers.
    The problem with this is if a shop orders 10 copies, maybe 7 subs and 3 shelf copies, and Marvel sends an extra 5, which ones do they give away for free? Sure, 7 people are already 'locked in' so screw them if they wonder why someone else is getting that issue for free, but how do you sell the 3 copies you paid for if you are giving away 5 for free. Especially if the 3 people who might have bought it for cover price are the ones to grab the free issues?

    No, there are plenty of ways to market books, extended previews inserted in books, 25 cent specials, events. Maybe also by not having 100 other books competing against each other. But, if Marvel thinks demand is being underestimated than (and while I do think they abuse this sometimes) sending free copies to retailers that retailers can sell (so that people don't come to the store with cash in hand but nothing to spend it on) is the best thing so those people will buy the next book instead of giving up. Someone being given a free book is less likely to buy the next one than someone who paid for it.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    The problem with this is if a shop orders 10 copies, maybe 7 subs and 3 shelf copies, and Marvel sends an extra 5, which ones do they give away for free? Sure, 7 people are already 'locked in' so screw them if they wonder why someone else is getting that issue for free, but how do you sell the 3 copies you paid for if you are giving away 5 for free. Especially if the 3 people who might have bought it for cover price are the ones to grab the free issues?

    No, there are plenty of ways to market books, extended previews inserted in books, 25 cent specials, events. Maybe also by not having 100 other books competing against each other. But, if Marvel thinks demand is being underestimated than (and while I do think they abuse this sometimes) sending free copies to retailers that retailers can sell (so that people don't come to the store with cash in hand but nothing to spend it on) is the best thing so those people will buy the next book instead of giving up. Someone being given a free book is less likely to buy the next one than someone who paid for it.
    Eh not really, manga in America is an example that contradicts that. There's a reason why scanlations still exist so strongly and that's partially because those who read it online for free are known for picking up the book once it becomes a graphic novel to own. It's also a major reason why people start out as web comics while offering a printed version. They know that fans who are able to try something out for free and enjoy it are willing to buy the physical copy to own and support. So essentially, Marvel is going the manga, web comic route, and there's nothing wrong with that.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Eh not really, manga in America is an example that contradicts that. There's a reason why scanlations still exist so strongly and that's partially because those who read it online for free are known for picking up the book once it becomes a graphic novel to own. It's also a major reason why people start out as web comics while offering a printed version. They know that fans who are able to try something out for free and enjoy it are willing to buy the physical copy to own and support. So essentially, Marvel is going the manga, web comic route, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    It is an interesting point but it is not what Marvel is doing, although it is the kind of thing that could count as me saying "there are plenty of ways to market books". Retailers are buying comics and reselling them, anything offered for free directly hurts stores. The models are not the same, free printed manga is not being handed out. Marvel does not even do free digital firsts with the expectation of people buying printed collections.

  9. #39
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    They have offered codes for free issues, usually #1s, but they are of course always months after release.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    It is an interesting point but it is not what Marvel is doing, although it is the kind of thing that could count as me saying "there are plenty of ways to market books". Retailers are buying comics and reselling them, anything offered for free directly hurts stores. The models are not the same, free printed manga is not being handed out. Marvel does not even do free digital firsts with the expectation of people buying printed collections.
    That's largely because comic book stores have always been frighten of their digital counterpart. I'm pretty sure you can recall the amount of backlash given by comic book stores when Marvel and DC stated they were going to go same day digital sales. Digital comics were always the boogeyman to comic book stores, and is a huge reason why they sale the digital form for the exact same price as it's printed counterpart when there's no reason they should be the same price.
    So essentially, comic book stores went with the secondary option. Instead of having them being able to read comics on apps for free and then pick up printed form at the store, they're giving away free comics at the store, hoping that issue will suck them into buying the remainder of the series. So the store sees them a net win if this free book will drive them to support the series as it comes out next month.

  11. #41
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    You can't honestly believe that Marvel would spend the thousands of dollars it would cost to print the extra copies JUST to have minor bragging rights on middle of the pack books? seriously? The books they do it with are consistently books that they feel are struggling and frequently the overships do pay off with increased orders of subsequent issues.
    It isn't bragging rights on a particular mid-list book. It's bragging rights for market share in UNITS to shareholders and corporate overlords and bean counters. And, if they have to do some sort of P&L statements on each book to continue publishing it, then yes, it's a way to juggle the numbers to give a book they like an extra few issues. Does it cost thousands of dollars? I don't know. But printing is funny. It could cost the practically the same amount to print a hypothetical 15,000 books as it does to print a hypothetical 9000, because printers give you price breaks dependent on how many issues you print.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I was curious about this as well, so just went back through comichhron's charts, looks like it was around May that the uptick began. It was following the usual attrition pattern and was at 26,086 in May, then June was 31k, July was 33k, and now August has it at 38k.
    I'm pretty sure corresponds to War of Realms tie-ins (event tie-ins usually give books a bump) and then the speculators coming on the new character Star.



    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    I dunno about AoA, cause that's a purely American made comic, but Aero and Sword master have pretty big safety nets in that they sell like gangbusters in their home country. I could see them cutting them to digital only if nothing else cause, those books basically cost Marvel nothing because netease writers and artists are the one working on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    yeah cutting them to digital only may be something they do there, i mean it's basically free money that way, eliminating the cost of printing, since all they have to pay for is translation costs and the minimal cost of prepping it for being read digitally. And it may be able to do double duty of attracting people to their digital store.
    Digital still costs money. From what Jim Zub said 7 years ago, it's not all that cheaper. Plus, I imagine there's some licensing agreement with Netease?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zub
    On a $3 book.

    -$0.90: 30% goes to the mobile platform (usually Apple or Google). This is a standard fee leveled on all in-app purchases (which is where the vast majority of digital transactions are happening). This is as close to non-negotiable as things get. You use their device, they take their share. It’s my understanding that comics bought directly through the website don’t have this fee levied against it, which means more money for comiXology, the publisher and the creative team, but it’s way less convenient.

    -$1.05: 35% (or, more specifically, 50% of what’s left after Apple/Google takes their share) goes to comiXology. Staff is needed to prep files, maintain servers, update the site and deal with technical issues, so comiXology is acting as the digital distributor. Other digital platforms may take a lower percentage of the cover price, so this amount is by no means universal, but it applies to the current leader in the marketplace.

    The remaining $1.05 is split between advertising, the publisher and creative team. Each publisher has their own digital rates and it varies quite a bit from what I’ve been hearing. In some cases publishers don’t offer any percentage of digital sales to the creative team on a creator-owned title. Other than that unfortunate scenario, some publishers are making the same amount they would on a print copy (11-12%), while on the higher end the amount is split evenly between the two. With such a large range it’s hard to nail down exact figures, but it does give you a sense of how things tend to work.
    http://www.jimzub.com/okay-but-what-...igital-comics/
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post

    Digital still costs money. From what Jim Zub said 7 years ago, it's not all that cheaper. Plus, I imagine there's some licensing agreement with Netease?
    Sure, but these are already long existing books in circulation. Any necessity for those two series is kinda undercut by the fact that they move crazy numbers compared to any marvel book actually translated to Chinese. The logistics are notably different because it's an already existing product.

  13. #43
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    Sure, but these are already long existing books in circulation. Any necessity for those two series is kinda undercut by the fact that they move crazy numbers compared to any marvel book actually translated to Chinese. The logistics are notably different because it's an already existing product.
    It doesn't matter if they are old books or not. Right off the top, according to that old article, there's 65% going to the mobile platform and Comixology. In the US, companies charge to deliver digital items.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    It doesn't matter if they are old books or not. Right off the top, according to that old article, there's 65% going to the mobile platform and Comixology. In the US, companies charge to deliver digital items.
    Yes, but the consideration of profit split is different. The original team is already paid via Netease. So it becomes a matter of how the deal falls through on the Western Hemisphere's end. Aka whether Netease is entitled to a share or not.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    It isn't bragging rights on a particular mid-list book. It's bragging rights for market share in UNITS to shareholders and corporate overlords and bean counters. And, if they have to do some sort of P&L statements on each book to continue publishing it, then yes, it's a way to juggle the numbers to give a book they like an extra few issues. Does it cost thousands of dollars? I don't know. But printing is funny. It could cost the practically the same amount to print a hypothetical 15,000 books as it does to print a hypothetical 9000, because printers give you price breaks dependent on how many issues you print.
    But they are doing this with books that are selling in the 30k range or less, most often, Aero apparently being a bit of an exception and some of that may have been variant covers. Added together it's going to equal an extra 50,000 issues or so in a given month, give or take. in the grand scheme of things, it's not going to make a lot of a difference to their market share, especially when Marvel is beating everyone else handily even if you strip those away, as evidenced by the dollar share. Yeah, printing works on volume and you get more bang for your buck the more you print, which will help with printing some extra issues since it will bring the cost per issue down somewhat. But take Valkyrie here, where it apparently got an extra 15k or something (I forgot the exact number, but... about that) that's not going to come free, no matter what the printing breakdown is, that is thousands of dollars worth of comics on Marvel's part, how many thousands I don't know, but it's not something they will get for free, on a 45k print run. They'll only do that if they expect some kind of monetary return down the line, in helping the book reach more people who will continue to get it.


    I'm pretty sure corresponds to War of Realms tie-ins (event tie-ins usually give books a bump) and then the speculators coming on the new character Star.
    Probably, but it may still benefit it in the long term

    Digital still costs money. From what Jim Zub said 7 years ago, it's not all that cheaper. Plus, I imagine there's some licensing agreement with Netease?



    http://www.jimzub.com/okay-but-what-...igital-comics/
    They take a cut, same as Diamond does, it's not the same as it actually costing them anything to put it on there, like printing the physical books does (where, at a certain point, because print runs get cheaper the larger they are, it becomes unprofitable to print them, especially if you also have to cover talent and overhead). If the cost of talent and editorial is already accounted for with the Asian sales, it's still essentially free money, it's just not a complete cover price per issue amount of free money.

    also, that breakdown was for an indie book, Marvel likely gets a better deal because of volume. and if people buy through the website, which you have to if you want to subscribe to a book, or they are now forced to for Apple users, then the platfrom cut is removed.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-16-2019 at 04:04 PM.

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