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  1. #121
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conch22 View Post
    It doesn't make sense for people to say "hey, I think this idea is done well" or "I think this was done poorly" because of a supposed intellectual inferiority you seem to have ascribed to non-minorities?
    BTW, every ethnic group has blood on their hands at some point and your favorite group to pity, whoever that happens to be, isn't that special.
    Since this has veered into chase ethnicity X out of the conversation territory, I think I'm just going to go, leave you to the hell you can't seem to acknowledge your building.
    Make sure you clear that with your "black best friend". I'm sure he's a huge fan of you dangling him around as your shield.
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  2. #122
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    It weird how people love to trot out percentages to show why there shouldn't be more minorites but never seem to have an issue with the over abundance of red heads running around.

    It's almost like they are completely full of shit.

    Actually it's exactly like that.
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  3. #123
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    It weird how people love to trot out percentages to show why there shouldn't be more minorites but never seem to have an issue with the over abundance of red heads running around.

    It's almost like they are completely full of shit.

    Actually it's exactly like that.
    That percentage breakdown was to make a point because that was a premiere excuse for changing the characters in MCU Spider-Man’s cast. Characters shouldn’t be changed in adaptions or retroactively in the comics. When they are they stop being the same characters. This isn’t about wanting fewer minorities.
    Last edited by KurtW95; 09-19-2019 at 03:44 AM.
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  4. #124
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    It weird how people love to trot out percentages to show why there shouldn't be more minorites but never seem to have an issue with the over abundance of red heads running around.

    It's almost like they are completely full of shit.

    Actually it's exactly like that.
    Speaking as a red head, all I can do is sigh at the over-representation in comics xD

    (Also, still waiting for MJ to talk about all the times she got sun burned or be unable to look up because the DAYSTAR BURNS HER RETINAS)
    Last edited by Tendrin; 09-19-2019 at 03:47 AM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Speaking as a red head, all I can do is sigh at the over-representation in comics xD

    (Also, still waiting for MJ to talk about all the times she got sun burned or be unable to look up because the DAYSTAR BURNS HER RETINAS)
    I smell a Blade team-up.
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  6. #126
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    I smell a Blade team-up.
    Makes sense.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    That percentage breakdown was to make a point because that was a premiere excuse for changing the characters in MCU Spider-Man’s cast. Characters shouldn’t be changed in adaptions or retroactively in the comics. When they are they stop being the same characters. This isn’t about wanting fewer minorities.
    "I want characters that "happen to be" *insert minority characteristic*" You've said this exact statement numerous times.

    If that characteristic isn't considered a fundamental trait, then what difference does it make if you swap the race of any character.

    Like I said, full of shit.

    No, the fact is you see "whiteness" as an intrinsic character trait, but put infinitely less value on non-white characters and how race would impact them.
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  8. #128
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    "I want characters that "happen to be" *insert minority characteristic*" You've said this exact statement numerous times.

    If that characteristic isn't considered a fundamental trait, then what difference does it make if you swap the race of any character.

    Like I said, full of shit.

    No, the fact is you see "whiteness" as an intrinsic character trait, but put infinitely less value on non-white characters and how race would impact them.
    Traits are a part of the character but they shouldn’t be the first thing you think of while creating said character or writing a plot. What I am saying is wholly consistent and I would be saying the same think of a black character were made white and everybody was acting like it was a great idea. What I say is that people used to put the characterization first when creating a character, that is why none of all of the minority characters created before this representation craze are so much better. If you think that it is indeed one or the other like you say here and you do believe that there are essential traits to characters, then buddy you might want to try to be consistent and you’ll find yourself saying exactly what I am.
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  9. #129
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    Some characters race is an essential characteristic. Black Panther, Luke Cage, The Falcon, Dr. Voodoo. All of them are directly built around issues of race, Blade no so much.

    Other than Norman Osborn, I can't think of a single Spider-Man character (to keep this on that specific character) that being white has ever played a prominent role in informing the character.

    Not one.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Traits are a part of the character but they shouldn’t be the first thing you think of while creating said character or writing a plot. What I am saying is wholly consistent and I would be saying the same think of a black character were made white and everybody was acting like it was a great idea. What I say is that people used to put the characterization first when creating a character, that is why none of all of the minority characters created before this representation craze are so much better. If you think that it is indeed one or the other like you say here and you do believe that there are essential traits to characters, then buddy you might want to try to be consistent and you’ll find yourself saying exactly what I am.
    I have to respectfully disagree. The history of comics is full of minority characters that were either underdeveloped, created to be tokens, or flat out stereotypes. We got say Storm or Black Lightening, but we also had tons of Tyrocs and Ebony Whites. We got Banshee and Siren but we also had stuff like Shamrock. It's not like we had all this great writing with nothing but rich character then the SJWs moved in 5 years ago and forced all the new minority characters to be boring.

  11. #131
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    ...to say nothing of the Mandrils….

    *shudder*

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree. The history of comics is full of minority characters that were either underdeveloped, created to be tokens, or flat out stereotypes. We got say Storm or Black Lightening, but we also had tons of Tyrocs and Ebony Whites. We got Banshee and Siren but we also had stuff like Shamrock. It's not like we had all this great writing with nothing but rich character then the SJWs moved in 5 years ago and forced all the new minority characters to be boring.
    Exactly.

    And that's the problem with this particular discussion around political correctness, it's framed from the perspective of a non-minority. I think the people being depicted are in a better position to speak about their depiction in the media. Besides, I can't think of a single character created recently where their identity is put ahead of the story. It hasn't happened with Moon Girl, it has happened with Ms Marvel, it hasn't happened with Miles Morales, it hasn't happened with Jessica Cruz e.t.c.

    All the talk of "good minority" representation in the past is complete nonsense considering the examples you mentioned and even the total garbage around Storm looking like a combination of "every single race in the world" (like just being a beautiful black woman isn't good enough).
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Exactly.

    And that's the problem with this particular discussion around political correctness, it's framed from the perspective of a non-minority. I think the people being depicted are in a better position to speak about their depiction in the media. Besides, I can't think of a single character created recently where their identity is put ahead of the story. It hasn't happened with Moon Girl, it has happened with Ms Marvel, it hasn't happened with Miles Morales, it hasn't happened with Jessica Cruz e.t.c.

    All the talk of "good minority" representation in the past is complete nonsense considering the examples you mentioned and even the total garbage around Storm looking like a combination of "every single race in the world" (like just being a beautiful black woman isn't good enough).
    If this thread was created with any remote interest in what non-white people thought they could have just chimed in on the minority/Comics thread.

    For all the bitching about "PC blah blah" it's hilarious that someone made a safe-space thread so that they could debate with presumably white male posters what "good PC" implementation is.

    And then when one of them got called on it, he packed his shit up and left.
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  14. #134
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    And that's the problem with this particular discussion around political correctness, it's framed from the perspective of a non-minority. I think the people being depicted are in a better position to speak about their depiction in the media.
    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    If this thread was created with any remote interest in what non-white people thought they could have just chimed in on the minority/Comics thread.

    For all the bitching about "PC blah blah" it's hilarious that someone made a safe-space thread so that they could debate with presumably white male posters what "good PC" implementation is.

    And then when one of them got called on it, he packed his shit up and left.
    Funny thing though, the thread was never meant to exclude the thoughts of non-white people. It's meant to specifically (more specifically than the minority/Comics thread anyway) discuss how the idea of "avoiding forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against" has been carried out in comics and how they can be carried out well, which pretty much necessitates having to consider the experiences of people from said groups, and can be better helped by people from said groups participating in this thread. That's at least more or less the idea I was going with, unless someone else wants to give me a better definition of such an action, and if you need me to state it out plainly, then I state that people of all colors are welcome to join in on the discussion of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conch22 View Post
    It doesn't make sense for people to say "hey, I think this idea is done well" or "I think this was done poorly" because of a supposed intellectual inferiority you seem to have ascribed to non-minorities?
    BTW, every ethnic group has blood on their hands at some point and your favorite group to pity, whoever that happens to be, isn't that special.
    Since this has veered into chase ethnicity X out of the conversation territory, I think I'm just going to go, leave you to the hell you can't seem to acknowledge your building.
    Yep, the idea of "it doesn't really make much sense for non-minorities to talk about PC or diversity done right when they have little to no understanding of how certain minorities feel considering they have been depicted and treated very badly for majority of America's history." can seem especially cold and cynical, given how human beings are able to sympathize with one another and are capable of learning about and understanding each other, regardless of the differences in race, gender, etc. And regardless of the bad courses of action white Americans and others in the past have taken, that history shouldn't stop a white American in modern times from showing care and concern for others, such as Peter David's writing for Jameson in X-Factor #217 (May 2011).





    Last edited by Electricmastro; 09-19-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  15. #135
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Let me know if you need help getting down off that cross you've built.
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