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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Default When is political correctness in comics done well?

    For those unaware with the term, political correctness, at least in as so far as I've come to understand it until I find a better definition, means:

    "the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."

    And based on that, I conclude that political correctness comes from a place of good intent, but what I think is more difficult, especially on a public website on the internet, to discern in regards to a person criticizing political correctness to begin with is what kind of intention said person has. While it's certainly possible to have bad intent when making a criticism (not that specific examples of such cases necessarily need to be emphasized here), I think that it's also possible to have good intent when making a criticism, as I'm sure can be the case for virtually anything that can be inserted into a comic book, including political correctness.

    So, assuming everyone for the time being reading this post has good intent when approaching the topic of political correctness, at least until proven otherwise, and with me being inspired to ask this question based on the discussions of political correctness I've been seeing as of late, I ask all of you here when you've felt political correctness in comics has been done well, because I think it can potentially result in some really interesting discussions.

  2. #2
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    It is always bad because it stifles the writer’s creativity in forcing the creator to always think first of the character’s identity before the plot and remove any option that could possibly seen as offensive, thus making the stories predictable and boring.
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    That's a pretty slanted definition of political correctness you used there, basically implying that anything that depicts minorities positively is only there because of PC culture and doesn't represent any kind of genuine expression, sort of the same line that right wing pundits have been propagating incessantly over the decades. I'd argue that the real problem with political correctness is that it often boils down to white creators trying to push an empowerment angle as a cynical cash grab, and that as a result they don't go far enough and end up with some milquetoast garbage that doesn't satisfy anyone.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    For those unaware with the term, political correctness, at least in as so far as I've come to understand it until I find a better definition, means:

    "the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."

    And based on that, I conclude that political correctness comes from a place of good intent, but what I think is more difficult, especially on a public website on the internet, to discern in regards to a person criticizing political correctness to begin with is what kind of intention said person has. While it's certainly possible to have bad intent when making a criticism (not that specific examples of such cases necessarily need to be emphasized here), I think that it's also possible to have good intent when making a criticism, as I'm sure can be the case for virtually anything that can be inserted into a comic book, including political correctness.

    So, assuming everyone for the time being reading this post has good intent when approaching the topic of political correctness, at least until proven otherwise, and with me being inspired to ask this question based on the discussions of political correctness I've been seeing as of late, I ask all of you here when you've felt political correctness in comics has been done well, because I think it can potentially result in some really interesting discussions.
    I think you're coming from a good place, but I believe you should think about what you're actually asking. "Taken to the extreme" implies something negative. It's like asking what's some good alcoholic or womanizing or religious zealot comics. Most normal people don't go around declaring themselves "politically correct." If what you're asking is what are good comics that discuss politics or ( what I think you're really trying to get at) what are good liberal comics, then there's a real conversation to be had.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I think you're coming from a good place, but I believe you should think about what you're actually asking. "Taken to the extreme" implies something negative. It's like asking what's some good alcoholic or womanizing or religious zealot comics. Most normal people don't go around declaring themselves "politically correct." If what you're asking is what are good comics that discuss politics or ( what I think you're really trying to get at) what are good liberal comics, then there's a real conversation to be had.
    I should mention that was the first definition that popped up on Google when I typed in political correctness, which I suppose says quite a bit about how some people may conclude political correctness to be just by looking up Google definitions of it. Now that I've said that though, I might as well ask what have you found to be the best definition for political correctness?

  6. #6
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    When it pisses off as many whiny, entitled StraightWhiteDudes as possible.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I should mention that was the first definition that popped up on Google when I typed in political correctness, which I suppose says quite a bit about how some people may conclude political correctness to be just by looking up Google definitions of it. Now that I've said that though, I might as well ask what have you found to be the best definition for political correctness?
    At it's most benign is probably about going out of your way to not offend people, at it's worst it what anti-SJW folks define it as whatever week this is. My thing is though is, "What's PC?" is really not the real point if we want to talk about social issues or whatever.

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    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    At it's most benign is probably about going out of your way to not offend people, at it's worst it what anti-SJW folks define it as whatever week this is. My thing is though is, "What's PC?" is really not the real point if we want to talk about social issues or whatever.
    What’s PC is getting to say this with no pushback despite the fact that if other groups were mentioned, it would RIGHTLY be lambasted:

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    When it pisses off as many whiny, entitled StraightWhiteDudes as possible.
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  9. #9
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Found one!

  10. #10
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Also “groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against” is hardly consistent. As we have seen with the talk of changing Magneto’s race, Ashkenazi Jews are suddenly insufficient in that category despite being having the most hate crimes against them per capita and record hate crimes in recent history across the US and the planet.
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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    When it pisses off as many whiny, entitled StraightWhiteDudes as possible.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

  12. #12
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    Remember when political correctness had a longer name ? It was called "Not being assholes to each other"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I should mention that was the first definition that popped up on Google when I typed in political correctness, which I suppose says quite a bit about how some people may conclude political correctness to be just by looking up Google definitions of it. Now that I've said that though, I might as well ask what have you found to be the best definition for political correctness?
    If you think about the way the phrase is worded and how it was originally used, it's supposed to evoke this image of some guy mindless parroting the party line even though he neither really understands nor believes in it, typically repeating word for word from a script which is why it is so quickly recognized and dismissed by people who hear it. The reason that this label gets applied so much to discourse about minority rights issues is not because their grievances are entirely illegitimate, as some right wingers would have you believe, but because the conversation is still largely dominated by white people trying to regulate what others should or shouldn't be offended by.

    Being triggered and having emotional breakdowns over perceived slights is, quite frankly, a white people thing. Most minorities are pretty used to hearing racial slurs and experiencing discrimination on a regular basis, and while we obviously don't like being openly disrespected, it's not going to be something that completely sets us off in the same way that white people seem to freak out over just having to share any space with us. And if you listen to how minorities talk about issues that affect them, the tone is usually a lot more intense and far less politically correct than what you'd get from a group of white liberals who have never experienced any of that.

  14. #14
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    I'll start out by saying I heavily dislike political correctness. Big part of that is it's predicated on treating people differently based on surface characteristics, with the presumption that equates a specific situation to be managed. It treats certain people as less than and others as greater than disregarding context like personal beliefs, wealth or personal achievements. Terms like privilege and being an ally also receive a certain zealotry traditionally associated with religious or cult beliefs, the terms original sin and being saved being comparable from my view.

    That said, I can try to work in some examples that I think have relevance to the conversation here.

    First off, in the comic series of iZombie, the main character Gwen Dylan, has a brother who happens to be gay. Aside from looking stereotypical of a twink, there's a happily ever after with his boyfriend moment when the series concludes. It denoted a lack of character to me. For myself, having it not work out and him meet someone new would've seemed more grounded than what came off to me as a patronizing fairy tale ending. That's in part due to a rushed ending, I would suppose, so this isn't some screaming down an assumed agenda point, moreover this arc was played overly safe when there could've been more to it.

    Secondly would be the subversion of a trope that could be seen as motivated by early political correctness. There's 2 specific black characters, Alex Wilder in Runaways and Boyd Langton in Dollhouse, that did a heel turn and became far more interesting characters as a result. While there are certainly a number of black characters in sci-fi/ fantasy that have had morally gray moments, a turn of that extent and how well it was done felt like a rarity in both instances.

    I had another point about legacy characters lost by this site, so to quickly sum it up sans nuance, legacies are overdone, they tend to be the sloppy seconds of popular white characters, Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz balanced character and culture well where some other legacies haven't, the sloppy second point makes Kasper Cole in Black Panther refreshing and there's a number of differences in the characters personal makeup, despite the alike skin color, which legacies that are lazy or underdeveloped rips are too common as of late.

  15. #15

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    Examples of political correctness being done well involve characters recognize the dignity of one another, especially when it's someone from a marginalized community.

    Politics can be handled poorly in a medium that's very reliant on shorthand, which doesn't leave much opportunity for nuance or detail.

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