When is political correctness in comics done well?

[dancj]

You may think i am but this was one of if not the only thing Ned wanted after learning Peter was Spider-Man, he wanted to be Spider-Mans overwatch don't believe me watch homecoming again plus my point is and this applys to Stark to when has Peter ever need help being spider-man.

None of that means Peter "needs" a man in the chair.

I'm not offended, i'm angry because i want to understand the creative process so that when i do it in my stories i'm not poing PC stuff but what i believe to be true progression but when i question any change to race, sexual orientition all i get is why not

It wasn't all you got. Those were two words cherry-picked out of a longer answer.

Here is a thought why can't i write a bisexual batwoman because supposedly thats digusting or a bisexual Karolina Dean because thats digusting too but a gay Steve Rogers with bucky thats adorable why, the only reason i can think of is that gay characters can't be changed but straight ones can and its because of implications regardless of how its done it has implications
So long as the implications are againist white, male and/or straight people then its of no concern but if it impacts a minority then nope it needs change.

Specifically, I'm not aware of anyone complaining about a gay character turning out to be bisexual. I've seen lots of people complaining about straight characters turning gay.

Turning a gay character straight would be a bigger jump and you may get complaints if you tried that, but one is a move that increases minority representation and the other reduces it. These are not the same thing.

Who are you to say what is and isnt revelant, i think it is very revelant, what i am saying is that Peter is not meant to have friends but Disney made a decision which was a political decison to represent all these minorities however they gave them roles to me they shouldnt have.
Ned Leeds can be Asian without a issue however to me should not have been Peters BFF

Choosing to give Peter a best friend is nothing to do with political correctness. The race they then gave that friend might be. These are two different decisions.

Says who

Anyone with a brain? How could dumbing Peter down be anything to do with political correctness - unless you're really going to stretch it as far as to say they didn't want to allow a non-minority to be too clever - but they they blew that by having Tony Stark in the first film.

I'm sorry but what kind of bully was he,

The kind who constantly mocks someone and works the crowds up against them. The kind that might cyber-bully someone. you don't need to be physically imposing to be a bully.

Again says you, for me the journey of Flash wither he be Latino, South Asian or Black should be the same because of the impact to Peter's story impact that we have lost because i'm not scared of Flash, don't even think he is that bad because there is no conflict between them
The issue is that Peter beats Flash - Flash is jealous - Peter has no reason to fear Flash matter of fact he has no reason to care about Flash other than being you know a human being.

I've no idea what you're trying to say here.

[dancj]

I can't say I'm particularly interested in how the people who have historically been responsible for excluding various minority groups define what is "acceptable" use of "politically correctness".

I'm generally on your side in this discussion, but cutting a large segment of the population out of any conversation is never a good way to go.

Neither is making generalisations about an ethnicity.

[BroHomo]

I'm generally on your side in this discussion, but cutting a large segment of the population out of any conversation is never a good way to go.

Eh it is when the conversation ain't about them...or it overwhelmingly affects the smaller population. Liiiiiiike as a dude I know I can share my opinion on debates concerning Women issues but expecting to be given an equal say/voice is a more than a liiiiiil ridiculous

[KOSLOX]

I'm generally on your side in this discussion, but cutting a large segment of the population out of any conversation is never a good way to go.

Neither is making generalisations about an ethnicity.

I think you are misinterpreting me, which could be because I'm pretty flippant in how I talk.

I'm not cutting people out, people can feel free to say whatever they want. I'm just going to assign value into how seriously I take that opinion. Even if we agree on this topic, there is an inherent incommensurability.

[KOSLOX]

Eh it is when the conversation ain't about them...or it overwhelmingly affects the smaller population. Liiiiiiike as a dude I know I can share my opinion on debates concerning Women issues but expecting to be given an equal say/voice is a more than a liiiiiil ridiculous

Exactly. 10char

[jetengine]

Depends on the womens issues frankly. I mean I get what your saying, its a tad silly to have the people "Putting you down" try to aid you when its their fault to begin with. Though at the sane time some of it isnt intentional, merely a remnant of the culture. Like I know guys who don't hate women, but spout the same laddish tizix ideas because its just seen as standard thingn

[Moon Ronin]

I think you are misinterpreting me, which could be because I'm pretty flippant in how I talk.

I'm not cutting people out, people can feel free to say whatever they want. I'm just going to assign value into how seriously I take that opinion. Even if we agree on this topic, there is an inherent incommensurability.

Though when it comes to entertainment, Movies, Novels, Comic books I would think the original post was tended readers as whole, as to would you read that or not? The Idea that is there a way to have political correctness done that it appeals to the majority of the audience? The Idea that it is done correctly can be subjective. I hated the New Ghost Rider and Joaquin (New Falcon) I believed that there were better ways to represent the Mexican American community with something other than the stereotypical East LA mechanic or illegal immigrant. Others disagree with my thinking because they think that any representation was better than none even it enforces stereotypes. So our opinions are shown through how much money we spend and companies take that seriously no matter what box we check under race.

[leo619]

This thread is a landmine so I'm just going to put this post here.


African American history revealed articles that over 60% of people had little to no problems with slavery during that time. Coates revealed polls from the civil rights age that over 60% of people disagree with the methods and disliked Martin Luther King. Now some may wish to downplay history as if they have no interactions on our current societies. These are often the individuals who say slavery is over and done with when we have people who currently experience segregation of school living today. So is there a way for political correctness to be done well that appeals to the majority? Of course not, because history has constantly pointed to the advancement of diversity has always been done through force and against the wishes of the majority. But that's the point, the advancement of progression has always been like swimming up against the river, with the minorities taking one step forward at a time. So to expect the majority to find political correctness acceptable is both asinine and unrealistic.

[PwrdOn]

I'm generally on your side in this discussion, but cutting a large segment of the population out of any conversation is never a good way to go.

Neither is making generalisations about an ethnicity.

White people aren't being cut out of the conversation on race though, indeed they have a disproportionately loud voice in the discussion as they do with most subjects. However, many of their arguments are easy to dismiss out of hand since they are quite self-evidently not made in good faith. For example, while certain fans are always decrying diverse casting for supposedly disrespecting the original work, those same fans rarely speak up when white actors are cast as characters that were originally from other backgrounds.

The thing to recognize here is that the media environment of the past that so many people are apparently nostalgic for, where square jawed white men took all the leading roles and everyone else was a silly caricature if their existence was acknowledged at all, was itself a product of political correctness. It should go without saying that this vision of an exclusively white society where everyone followed traditional gender roles and all conflicts could be resolved by punching them hard enough never existed anywhere in reality, and that it said quite a lot that people chose this as their vision of a idealized fantasy world to propagate through mass media.

[BroHomo]

White people aren't being cut out of the conversation on race though, indeed they have a disproportionately loud voice in the discussion as they do with most subjects. However, many of their arguments are easy to dismiss out of hand since they are quite self-evidently not made in good faith. For example, while certain fans are always decrying diverse casting for supposedly disrespecting the original work, those same fans rarely speak up when white actors are cast as characters that were originally from other backgrounds.

The thing to recognize here is that the media environment of the past that so many people are apparently nostalgic for, where square jawed white men took all the leading roles and everyone else was a silly caricature if their existence was acknowledged at all, was itself a product of political correctness. It should go without saying that this vision of an exclusively white society where everyone followed traditional gender roles and all conflicts could be resolved by punching them hard enough never existed anywhere in reality, and that it said quite a lot that people chose this as their vision of a idealized fantasy world to propagate through mass media.

This póst...this post right here

[Celgress]

I prefer creators to be unshackled PC or non-PC. Take the indy comic book "Second Coming" as a spiritual person I find the premise deeply offensive, however, I have no right to say such a comic shouldn't be made because I'm offended which is a good thing.

Furthermore, without freedom of speech, other freedoms would not exist because people would not have been able to push for them (through long hard struggles)

[Username taken]

White people aren't being cut out of the conversation on race though, indeed they have a disproportionately loud voice in the discussion as they do with most subjects. However, many of their arguments are easy to dismiss out of hand since they are quite self-evidently not made in good faith. For example, while certain fans are always decrying diverse casting for supposedly disrespecting the original work, those same fans rarely speak up when white actors are cast as characters that were originally from other backgrounds.

The thing to recognize here is that the media environment of the past that so many people are apparently nostalgic for, where square jawed white men took all the leading roles and everyone else was a silly caricature if their existence was acknowledged at all, was itself a product of political correctness. It should go without saying that this vision of an exclusively white society where everyone followed traditional gender roles and all conflicts could be resolved by punching them hard enough never existed anywhere in reality, and that it said quite a lot that people chose this as their vision of a idealized fantasy world to propagate through mass media.

So well said.

Quoted for simplest of truths.

[Username taken]

I prefer creators to be unshackled PC or non-PC. Take the indy comic book "Second Coming" as a spiritual person I find the premise deeply offensive, however, I have no right to say such a comic shouldn't be made because I'm offended which is a good thing.

Furthermore, without freedom of speech, other freedoms would not exist because people would not have been able to push for them (through long hard struggles)

I agree.

Like the Preacher for example, i hated the title because of my religious beliefs but i'm not going go around asking for it "not to exist" (which is a by-product of modern cancel culture).

[dancj]

Eh it is when the conversation ain't about them...or it overwhelmingly affects the smaller population. Liiiiiiike as a dude I know I can share my opinion on debates concerning Women issues but expecting to be given an equal say/voice is a more than a liiiiiil ridiculous

I think you are misinterpreting me, which could be because I'm pretty flippant in how I talk.

I'm not cutting people out, people can feel free to say whatever they want. I'm just going to assign value into how seriously I take that opinion. Even if we agree on this topic, there is an inherent incommensurability.

Clearly as a white man living in England, I can only guess at what prejudice feels like. I don't expect my voice to carry nearly as much weight as people who've experienced those issues.

When you say things like "I can't say I'm particularly interested in how the people who have historically been responsible for excluding various minority groups define what is "acceptable" use of "politically correctness"." then you're effectively saying you're cutting people out of the conversation. I think that's dangerous.

[Tendrin]

Clearly as a white man living in England, I can only guess at what prejudice feels like. I don't expect my voice to carry nearly as much weight as people who've experienced those issues.

When you say things like "I can't say I'm particularly interested in how the people who have historically been responsible for excluding various minority groups define what is "acceptable" use of "politically correctness"." then you're effectively saying you're cutting people out of the conversation. I think that's dangerous.

Sometimes, those voices need to be cut out or else they, often through no fault of their individual own and as well intentioned as some may be, will continue to take over the discourse.

I guess what I'm saying is that the last thing this discourse needs is to wind up drowning out the voices of the impacted by those who've never experienced it. It winds up leading to the actual issues being unaddressed or All About The Majority's Feelings and that's not really a good place for the conversation to begin or end.