View Poll Results: Should we continue to discuss OMD or should be ban/curtail it?

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • A total ban on discussing OMD/One More Day/OMIT. No ifs, ands, and buts.

    3 5.66%
  • No ban! It's a major Spider-Man story with lasting impact on continuity.

    32 60.38%
  • A separate thread for discussing just that with a sticky but no discussions outside that.

    14 26.42%
  • OMD and discussing it doesn't bother me, I couldn't care less.

    7 13.21%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #76
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    I voted for the digital garbage bin because that's what all OMD discussions invariably become
    Last edited by Zeitgeist; 09-16-2019 at 09:15 AM.
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  2. #77
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Go back across history, and there's a long tradition of people satirizing creators for their views, ideas, and their work. Sometimes this has been done by fellow creators. Look up Mark Twain's "James Fenimoore Cooper's Literary Offenses". Cooper is, in my view at least, a good author whose reputation took a disproportionate nosedive thanks to Twain but at the same time, Twain's satire is hilarious and funny, and of general interest in terms of how stuff become cliche or appear cliche.
    Satire is a different thing, it has a more playful or cheeky connotation. Again, "take down a peg" strikes me as far more antagonistic, as does the idea that all creators think themselves above others.

    I don't think you can write OMD and OMIT, defend it as a concept, and escape ridicule. To quote Oscar Wilde who said of Charles Dickens' Old Curiosity Shop, "You must have a heart of stone to not laugh at Little Nell's death."
    I'd never say people are above criticism. That's just part of the process. Being laid low on a personal level though, that's a level beyond IMO.



    I myself commended Quesada for being more courageous than for instance the creators of Game of Thrones who have gone off the grid in embarassment about the backlash of the show ans passed the buck to the actors. I also pointed out that Mark Waid is more insightful and empathetic now than he was back then.

    But nobody wants to bring that up.
    Hey, I can only comment on what I immediately see.
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  3. #78
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    sounds like you are bored with the genre of mainstream american superhero comics and should move on as a reader.
    My favourite good guy winning all the time moment of mainstream american superhero comics was Gwen Stacy dying




    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    why do gossip rags exist

    why does tmz exist

    why does the daily mail exist
    Pretty sure these are universally terrible things, so case in point really
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  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Satire is a different thing, it has a more playful or cheeky connotation.
    I don't think you have heard of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Or for that matter Harvey Kurtzman's MAD. Or Pat Mills/Kevin O'Neill's MARSHAL LAW.

    Satire can be mean-spirited. Great satire can be nasty. Kurtzman's MAD magazine when he wrote it, including satires like Mickey Rodent, Superduperman and Starchie were driven by an overriding hatred and contempt by the author for his targets (Mickey Mouse, Superman, Archie).

    Marshal Law even more so. Parody does have a playful and cheeky connotation. Stuff like Mel Brooks and others but actual satire has an edge.

    I'd never say people are above criticism. That's just part of the process. Being laid low on a personal level though, that's a level beyond IMO.
    And what does that even mean? I have never once made remarks about anyone's personal life here. What does that even mean?

  5. #80
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I don't think you have heard of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Or for that matter Harvey Kurtzman's MAD. Or Pat Mills/Kevin O'Neill's MARSHAL LAW.

    Satire can be mean-spirited. Great satire can be nasty. Kurtzman's MAD magazine when he wrote it, including satires like Mickey Rodent, Superduperman and Starchie were driven by an overriding hatred and contempt by the author for his targets (Mickey Mouse, Superman, Archie).

    Marshal Law even more so. Parody does have a playful and cheeky connotation. Stuff like Mel Brooks and others but actual satire has an edge.
    Contrary to what the local nuns say I did have a childhood, so yes, I am quite familiar Kurtzman; A Modest Proposal came later. Marshal Law, no.

    To your point, satire can indeed be biting and scathing - but as evidenced by many of your examples, I associate satire more with sending up works, genres, positions, views, etc, rather than a person of themselves directly. Only when a person is incredibly prolific people do they tend to get satirised as a caricature, and so comparatively the pool is a bit smaller.

    This is the distinction I've been bringing up here: attacking the work vs. attacking the author. I feel one is more positive and conductive to discussions and the other more toxic to general discourse but also the relationship between fan and creator.

    And what does that even mean? I have never once made remarks about anyone's personal life here. What does that even mean?

    Personal level, I said nothing about personal life. Again, the language you used I felt seemed antagonistic against authors/artists specifically and thus I questioned it to understand why. If we're not talking about their work, if we're talking about their supposed "opinion they have of themselves" or their "self-important halo", then we're talking about them on a personal level, are we not? Unless it's a opinion you have about artists/creators on a generalised level, which is just as curious.
    Personally, I feel like people need to be humbled if they've been a terrible trashbag person, not due to a perceived mistake in their work. Does this make sense at all?
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    the chairman of
    i didn't realize homonyms were difficult for you. my bad


    the people talking about the people talking about omd definitely nailed that ol’ coffin. thankfully we now have a thread for people to talk about the people talking about the people talking about omd

    but the actual discussion about the potential future of two characters sputtered out before that
    more like people who didn't read the original post and came into the old thread to pile on those who did read the original post caused this new thread. the old thread would have sputtered to its natural death but the ones who wanted the conversation to die kept it going. ironic that

    on topic i believe people have free will so if you don't want to talk about omd don't talk about it. problem solved

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    i understand that, which is why i think the poll itself is not particularly well thought out.

    there's no room for context or case by case situations. there's always going to be points where discussing omd is relevant, but a couple of sticky threads to house the oft repeated stuff would be welcome.
    The poll does seem a bit reductive. There's a fine line between wanting all OMD talk to be in one thread, even if it's relevant to new topics (Marvel releases JMS's One More Day scripts, Quesada announces the follow-up mini series) and not wanting OMD talk in a discussion about an issue about Spider-Man's appearance in Daredevil.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I think this is a conversation that has been needed for a long time. Not just for the constant One More Day derails, but how we talk about comic creators. The latter is an issue that extends to other sections of this message board (for example, Dan DiDio on the various DC forums), but it's most pronounced on the Spider-Man forum. It's a shame, because it's not the majority of posters, it's a small handful of very active posters. It's driven comic creators away from the board, it drives regular fans away from the boards, and it just reflects badly on comic fans in general, and Spider-Man fans and the CBR community specifically.

    Ultimately it's up to the moderators what they want to enforce and how they want to enforce it. But with a little basic etiquette from everyone that wouldn't be necessary.
    You summed up my feelings pretty well.

    It's not that it gets talked about. I think most fans understand that it's going to be a talking point forever. It's the derailments that are the problem. When I start to read a new thread I try to guess how many posts we'll get to before it gets hijacked by posters still upset about OMD. I think the over/under is about a dozen usually.

    You're also totally right about it being a small handful of very active posters. At least one seems to have left recently though so maybe it will get better.

    I can say I visit this board less than I used to mainly because of the derailments. I wonder how many other visitors either stopped coming or come less than they used to? If it was limited to a comment or two it would be one thing but the relentless, attacking nature of a lot of the posts follows a predictable and never ending pattern.

    "Just avoid the OMD threads" isn't a viable option because it only takes one or two OMD-focused posters to turn EVERY thread into an OMD thread.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    i didn't realize homonyms were difficult for you. my bad
    and you ain't about that pun life huh? that's ok.

    also, i see you're not an iggy pop fan.

    more like people who didn't read the original post and came into the old thread to pile on those who did read the original post caused this new thread. the old thread would have sputtered to its natural death but the ones who wanted the conversation to die kept it going. ironic that
    sooo..basically what i said.

    ps. the more catty you get, the more i think i love you.
    troo fan or death

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The poll does seem a bit reductive. There's a fine line between wanting all OMD talk to be in one thread, even if it's relevant to new topics (Marvel releases JMS's One More Day scripts, Quesada announces the follow-up mini series) and not wanting OMD talk in a discussion about an issue about Spider-Man's appearance in Daredevil.
    agreed. i guess most short polls aren't really good at catching nuance and accounting for context.
    troo fan or death

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    and you ain't about that pun life huh? that's ok.

    also, i see you're not an iggy pop fan.
    sorry, gramps

    sooo..basically what i said.
    that would carry more weight if jack hadn’t needed to point you to the first post

    ps. the more catty you get, the more i think i love you.
    most do. ‘tis my curse

    um now to keep this on topic

    okay

    how about if people hate the derailment then don’t respond to the derailers. they will eventually get tired of screaming into a void or only at each other

    or

    maybe this forum needs is a way to mute or ignore users rather than topics. some message boards have that function

    or

    train yourself not to read posts by users who annoy you

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    sorry, gramps
    never sheath those claws my glorious man-cat

    that would carry more weight if jack hadn’t needed to point you to the first post
    sooo..basically what i said.

    okay

    how about if people hate the derailment then don’t respond to the derailers. they will eventually get tired of screaming into a void or only at each other

    or

    maybe this forum needs is a way to mute or ignore users rather than topics. some message boards have that function

    or

    train yourself not to read posts by users who annoy you
    while i'm all for personal responsibility, people are probably not going to change. even when asked politely. but systems can be altered.
    Last edited by boots; 09-16-2019 at 08:55 PM.
    troo fan or death

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    agreed. i guess most short polls aren't really good at catching nuance and accounting for context.
    A further point is that there are different types of One More Day discussion. "Are we going to see One More Day reversed?" is different from personally going after the people who think it was a good idea.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    A further point is that there are different types of One More Day discussion. "Are we going to see One More Day reversed?" is different from personally going after the people who think it was a good idea.
    Yeah, if nothing else, keeping things from getting as personal as they do should be managed in some form.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #90
    Baby Thanos Member catbellysqueezer's Avatar
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    Still new to comics so I don't know the history of this, but why don't they just make multiple series with different relationships in each
    Baby Thanos

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