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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Stigmazilla's Avatar
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    Default The snap gets reversed (mcu)

    What if when Thanos snaps in infinity war, everyone who survived got reversed. So instead of Tony, Cap and the rest, Doctor Strange, Starlord and Spiderman survived. Could they bring everyone back?

  2. #2
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    What if when Thanos snaps in infinity war, everyone who survived got reversed. So instead of Tony, Cap and the rest, Doctor Strange, Starlord and Spiderman survived. Could they bring everyone back?
    No, without Ant Man the plan would never have worked since Pym & Crew wouldn't have learned Time Travel was possible.

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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    No, without Ant Man the plan would never have worked since Pym & Crew wouldn't have learned Time Travel was possible.
    I thought part of the whole thing was that Ant Man was in the quantum realm and thus was exempt from the snap?

    That said, without Tony to figure out time travel. I'm not sure this works.
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    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I thought part of the whole thing was that Ant Man was in the quantum realm and thus was exempt from the snap?
    Nah, that's specifically been clarified as not being the case. He was just part of the 50% who weren't randomly selected to no longer exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    That said, without Tony to figure out time travel. I'm not sure this works.
    Probably, but I'd like to put forward some very key facts - starting with the fact that Hank Pym would still be alive. As would Janet. Perhaps, with his genius, and her SURELY knowing something about time operating differently in the Quantum Realm, they could at least come up with the idea for time travel.

    Then, consider Doctor Strange's power, Scarlet Witch's power, Shuri's genius etc - I think there'd be a chance.

    For starters, Doctor Strange would have seen a bunch of different futures in this scenario. This would have created millions of outcomes that wouldn't have been shown to him in Infinity War. One of THOSE futures might have unearthed the key to defeating Thanos.

    Scarlet Witch's rage might have eventually unleashed new reality-warping powers that we haven't yet seen.

    Shuri is more intelligent than Tony Stark, apparently. No reason why she couldn't come up with the same time travel tech that he did.

    With Scarlet Witch and Shuri alive, efforts might have been made to revive Vision sans the Mind Stone. Vision was created using elements of both Tony Stark and Bruce Banner's minds - two people who created time machines. Who's to say Vision couldn't have helped to make one?

    Nick Fury would be alive. Who knows what kind of contingencies he had in place for apocalyptic scenarios like this?

    Erik Selvig would still be alive. He's a genius who could certainly lend his mind to the cause.

    I think they'd succeed in undoing it.

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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Didn't know that about Ant Man, good to know.

    And I'll admit I had forgotten about Shuri. She could do it so in which case things should go alright.
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  6. #6
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    I think the combination of Pym/Janet/Hope + Shuri + full cooperation with Wakanda and their tech (since T'challa is alive), I think they would eventually figured it out.

    So assuming they figure that out, that is one obstacle gone.

    So next, that makes the "time heist" the next obstacle. One good thing about Pym being alive is that they have unlimited access to pym particles, which means the time heist wouldn't be as scary because theoretically, they can just keep going back into time if they mess up.

    Strange goes to TAO and simply asks for the stone. That one is easy.

    Tesseract isn't a problem because there are multiple points to take it throughout history.

    The Sceptor is a problem. The reverse snap means all the OG dudes are gone. BUT, SW knows where it is at thanks to AoU, so she probably steals it why Strucker as it.

    Star Lord knows that one is on Morag since he took it, that one is easy.

    I can't think of anyone that knows that the Aether was on Asgard. Thor told the Guardians that it was with the collector in the beginning of IW. So I guess they could steal it from the Collector if Star Lord remembers.

    So now you have to think of a duo to go to Vormir that "love" each other enough to sacrifice one of them. Most obvious candidates would seem to be Hank/Janet, Hank/Hope, Janet/Hope, Scott/Hope, T'challa/Shuri. All those combinations seem crazy dark (the antman crew just got back together lol) or not gonna happen (too much box office $$$$$$$ in Wakanda duo). Maybe some stupid "Drax is so dumb he loves mantis" crap might work and he jumps to see his family again? Maybe Drax loves the "guardians" because they are his new family and he jumps instead of SL.

    So you have the stones... next big problem is... who the hell can snap? All the big guns are gone... Hulk, Thor, Captain Marvel, even Valkryie.

    Stark was able to do it as a human with a special suit to absorb some of the stuff BUT even then, what he did scale wise (destroy thanos army) was absolutely nothing compared to bringing everyone back without messing with the last five years.

    Can a human even pull something on that scale off without blowing up before its done?
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator The Watcher's Avatar
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    They could easily bring everyone back almost immediately because Thanos himself would be dusted in this scenario since he survived originally, leaving the Stones right there to be picked up and used.

    (And while the Gauntlet might be dusted along with Thanos the Stones should survive since it takes the power of a separate Snap to just destroy them)
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    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    Probably, but I'd like to put forward some very key facts - starting with the fact that Hank Pym would still be alive. As would Janet. Perhaps, with his genius, and her SURELY knowing something about time operating differently in the Quantum Realm, they could at least come up with the idea for time travel.

    Then, consider Doctor Strange's power, Scarlet Witch's power, Shuri's genius etc - I think there'd be a chance.

    For starters, Doctor Strange would have seen a bunch of different futures in this scenario. This would have created millions of outcomes that wouldn't have been shown to him in Infinity War. One of THOSE futures might have unearthed the key to defeating Thanos.

    Scarlet Witch's rage might have eventually unleashed new reality-warping powers that we haven't yet seen.

    Shuri is more intelligent than Tony Stark, apparently. No reason why she couldn't come up with the same time travel tech that he did.

    With Scarlet Witch and Shuri alive, efforts might have been made to revive Vision sans the Mind Stone. Vision was created using elements of both Tony Stark and Bruce Banner's minds - two people who created time machines. Who's to say Vision couldn't have helped to make one?

    Nick Fury would be alive. Who knows what kind of contingencies he had in place for apocalyptic scenarios like this?

    Erik Selvig would still be alive. He's a genius who could certainly lend his mind to the cause.

    I think they'd succeed in undoing it.
    1) Janet had no time issues in the Quantum Realm as she aged normally, and it required leaving the quantum realm to learn. Since Hank knew barely anything about it I don't see them just randomly discovering it's possible

    2) Strange only saw 1 future in all the ones he checked which required the people who survived to survive, and I'm fairly certain that such an indiscriminate random killer like the Snap wouldn't kill the same people every time.

    3) As Watcher said it's kinda academic at this point since Thanos is dead, but assuming he remained I don't see how they could come to the Time Heist again. Their best bet would be to track down Thanos before he snapped the stones away.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So you have the stones... next big problem is... who the hell can snap? All the big guns are gone... Hulk, Thor, Captain Marvel, even Valkryie.

    Stark was able to do it as a human with a special suit to absorb some of the stuff BUT even then, what he did scale wise (destroy thanos army) was absolutely nothing compared to bringing everyone back without messing with the last five years.

    Can a human even pull something on that scale off without blowing up before its done?
    I could imagine Shuri putting something together similar to Stark's Gauntlet/Suit, but I agree that no one should be able to withstand what Hulk did to undo the snap. Vibranium might be able to help a bit in that, but the one Thanos already had was made by the guy who helped make Stormbreaker & Mjolnir so I don't think it would help enough.
    Last edited by Dalak; 09-16-2019 at 09:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Everything is Groot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Watcher View Post
    They could easily bring everyone back almost immediately because Thanos himself would be dusted in this scenario since he survived originally, leaving the Stones right there to be picked up and used.

    (And while the Gauntlet might be dusted along with Thanos the Stones should survive since it takes the power of a separate Snap to just destroy them)
    You beat me to it. I will just add credence to this by saying that the Russo's comfirmed that Thanos didn't make himself exemped from the snap.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastDalek View Post
    You beat me to it. I will just add credence to this by saying that the Russo's comfirmed that Thanos didn't make himself exemped from the snap.
    That is simply bonkers that they said that. Somebody needs to stop asking them questions.

    The dude didn't make himself exempt!? Really??? That makes NO sense. If he had dusted himself, he couldn't have done part 2 of his plan of destroying the stones. They would just be sitting there waiting for a suicidal tough guy to undo the damage.

    I just can't accept that he would have risked all that.
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    Also, why are we just handwaving Shuri as being smarter then Stark? Or even Banner? She had exactly one piece of dialogue that suggested she had a more clever idea then them, but her actual feats are lacking.

    Stark- 1: Made a giant free energy device that a team of scientists didn't know how to shrink into a fist sized pacemaker out of scrap parts. 2: Perfected it and made a new element. 3: created multiple AI. 4: Created functional nanotechnology. 5: Recreated the Infinity Gauntlet. 6: Perfected Time Travel. 7: Finished Vision.

    Banner: 1: Foremost authority on Gamma energy - accidently made the Hulk. 2: Co-created Vision. 3: Co-created Ultron. 4: Co-created Hulkbuster armor - later possibly made his own. 5: "Cured" the Hulk. 6: Failed time travel lol

    Shuri's best feats? 1: Made quiet shoes. 2: Remote controlled vehicle station. 3: Created functional Nanotech in the BP suit. 4: Absorbing kinetic energy tech. 5: EMP beads

    All of her stuff is good and arguably better then Banner at least.... buuut a big asterisk is thrown on some of her stuff. The asterisk of course being that Wakanda has a baseline tech level WAY in excess of what Stark and Banner were working with. When Stark was a little boy, Wakanda already had mountains of Vibranium and cloaking super sonic laser shooting radar invisible jet planes. Presumably that huge forcefield and all the other junk we see wasn't all created in the last couple of years as Shuri became chief science officer.

    Can you imagine what Stark would have been capable of if he were to start in a country with unlimited access to Vibranium, money and Wakandan base tech levels?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
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    Whilst we find the path"

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  13. #13
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    She also was able to unlock Vision from the mind stone, right?

    Also, the what-if-Stark-but-in-Wakanda question feels like a weird reach for Stark and a downplay of Shuri. Stark is a main character who's had... seven movies in which he's played either the main role or one of the main roles. Shuri has been a supporting character in one (technically two I suppose) films. It's natural that Stark has done more stuff.

    Saying that Stark would do better if he'd had her upbringing or background feels hollow to me.

    The terms of thread is whether it's possible. If Tony is presented as smart enough to figure out time travel, I have no issue with Shuri likewise figuring it out. In terms of feats, Stark has obviously done more and better things but in terms of presentation I don't think Shuri is incapable of solving time travel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    That is simply bonkers that they said that. Somebody needs to stop asking them questions.

    The dude didn't make himself exempt!? Really??? That makes NO sense. If he had dusted himself, he couldn't have done part 2 of his plan of destroying the stones. They would just be sitting there waiting for a suicidal tough guy to undo the damage.

    I just can't accept that he would have risked all that.
    Thanos was allways way more about his convictions than logic. The whole reason he did the sna was because he believed it was fair and that would mean giving himself the same 50/50 chance that everyone else had.

    In endgame I allways got the impression that he came up with the destroy the stones post snap, since it was more about removing his own temtations than anything else.

  15. #15
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Also, why are we just handwaving Shuri as being smarter then Stark? Or even Banner? She had exactly one piece of dialogue that suggested she had a more clever idea then them, but her actual feats are lacking.

    Stark- 1: Made a giant free energy device that a team of scientists didn't know how to shrink into a fist sized pacemaker out of scrap parts. 2: Perfected it and made a new element. 3: created multiple AI. 4: Created functional nanotechnology. 5: Recreated the Infinity Gauntlet. 6: Perfected Time Travel. 7: Finished Vision.

    Banner: 1: Foremost authority on Gamma energy - accidently made the Hulk. 2: Co-created Vision. 3: Co-created Ultron. 4: Co-created Hulkbuster armor - later possibly made his own. 5: "Cured" the Hulk. 6: Failed time travel lol

    Shuri's best feats? 1: Made quiet shoes. 2: Remote controlled vehicle station. 3: Created functional Nanotech in the BP suit. 4: Absorbing kinetic energy tech. 5: EMP beads

    All of her stuff is good and arguably better then Banner at least.... buuut a big asterisk is thrown on some of her stuff. The asterisk of course being that Wakanda has a baseline tech level WAY in excess of what Stark and Banner were working with. When Stark was a little boy, Wakanda already had mountains of Vibranium and cloaking super sonic laser shooting radar invisible jet planes. Presumably that huge forcefield and all the other junk we see wasn't all created in the last couple of years as Shuri became chief science officer.

    Can you imagine what Stark would have been capable of if he were to start in a country with unlimited access to Vibranium, money and Wakandan base tech levels?
    While I don't disagree in principle, I do think a few of your comparisons are a bit of a stretch. Stark already had the underlying tech for his 'heart' thanks to his Dad, and while the parts were spare they weren't scrap (Those missiles were A-OK for example). There's also the work Ultron did in designing Vision long before Stark & Banner got ahold of the programming along with the X factor of the Mind Gem being thrown into the mix.

    Shuri is right up there tied for top MCU Earth Genius, but when you get up that high it's hard to quantify 'smarter' without feats like comic Reed/Doom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    She also was able to unlock Vision from the mind stone, right?

    Also, the what-if-Stark-but-in-Wakanda question feels like a weird reach for Stark and a downplay of Shuri. Stark is a main character who's had... seven movies in which he's played either the main role or one of the main roles. Shuri has been a supporting character in one (technically two I suppose) films. It's natural that Stark has done more stuff.

    Saying that Stark would do better if he'd had her upbringing or background feels hollow to me.

    The terms of thread is whether it's possible. If Tony is presented as smart enough to figure out time travel, I have no issue with Shuri likewise figuring it out. In terms of feats, Stark has obviously done more and better things but in terms of presentation I don't think Shuri is incapable of solving time travel.
    Thinking about it, considering what Hydra had which Howard Stark got to tinker with, the tech base of the MCU Earth wasn't too shabby compared to Wakanda's. And while I don't think they'll get the info needed in this scenario I agree Shuri would be able to wrap her head around Time Travel as well as Banner/Stark.
    Last edited by Dalak; 09-16-2019 at 01:25 PM.

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