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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Default Good stories that happened thanks to weaker stories

    Based on some other conversations in some threads, I had this idea I thought would be interesting to discuss. Essentially how do you feel about really good stories that are in response to or only happened because of events in a not-so good story. Do you think that justifies the originals in some way or another, or just look at each story as an individual on their own merits.

    There's obviously the big elephant in the room example, but I also think its worth looking beyond that too. Prime example for me would be getting JMS' The Conversation and Doomed Affairs as a result of to the not-so-good Fake-Out Aunt May and MJ death stories. Or even outside of main Spidey, looking at the spinoffs, Silk's poor introduction leading to her great solo, or the kind of rushed rebonding of Eddie & Venom resulting in the current fantastic Cates run.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  2. #2
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I will be the brave one who says ASM #300 leading to, y'know.

  3. #3
    A Green Unpleasant Man Rob London's Avatar
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    Spider-Island drew its main villain from an, uh, little-loved arc of Paul Jenkins' Spectacular Spider-Man.

  4. #4
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    He-who-must-not-be-named.

    Alpha.

    There. I said it.

    Slott's intro was bashed by many (though I personally didn't find it that weak) but Fialkov's mini was pretty good.
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  5. #5
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    I thought Clone Conspiracy pretty well sucked, and nothing about the Grim Hunt spoke to me, but Hunted pretty well rocked in large parts due to Billy and Kraven being alive.
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  6. #6
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    The Clone Saga gave us ASM#400.


    The Onslaught Saga gave us PPSM#72

    OMD gave us Renew your Vow (kinda)

    Every classic Kraven story gave us Kraven's Last hunt (and no, before that Kraven never had really good stories and he was considered a c-list villain)

    Worldwide (ugh) gave us Spider-Man /Deadpool 1/6

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    In addition to the above examples (JMS salvaging Aunt May and MJ from Mackie's run), I will add that most of Slott's run (which is more mediocre than bad) qualifies. Mostly because it's been adapted well.

    -- Mr. Negative was Slott's new villain who he didn't use as much and as well as he should have but he showed up and did well in Spider-Man PS4.

    -- Renew Your Vows was a charming diversion by Slott but otherwise not doing anything done better during the marriage but Gerry Conway and Jody Houser made that into a charming and viable AU, which in the case of a couple of issues outsold ASM that particular month which never happens. (Even Life Story has never been able to do that, as successful as it is).

    -- Jameson during Slott's run was mostly a bunch of cliches but Zdarsky in My Dinner with Jonah used a lot of stuff that happened in Slott's run to make Jonah a character in a big way.

    -- Superior Spider-Man's most important contribution was that Nick Spencer got to publish that far better Superior Foes of Spider-Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCampy89 View Post
    Every classic Kraven story gave us Kraven's Last hunt (and no, before that Kraven never had really good stories and he was considered a c-list villain)
    There are too some good Kraven stories. The Ditko stories are fine (and motifs from that, such as the mansion with all the stuffed animals featured in the opening of KLH and HUNTED) are already there. Then you have the Marvel Team-Up with Claremont where he hypnotizes Tigra, which is a terrific story and the Kraven of HUNTED, this mastermind take, seems to be based on this (not to mention that Arcade made his debut during Claremont's run on MTU so obviously Spencer took notes).

    Another underrated gem is the unusual Spider-Man issue ASM #47. Unusual because it's virtually the first Untold Tales of Spider-Man in that Lee inserted a missing adventure of Green Goblin where he allied with Kraven into continuity so as to justify using the Goblin after Norman lost his memories. That was done in flashback. And here Kraven's shown as a major villain.

    Of course KLH is a masterpiece, no taking away from that, but it did build on stuff that existed before and that stuff wasn't bad.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 09-16-2019 at 05:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    As per our discussions on What Spider-Man Would Have Been If OMD Never happened, we can technically argue that OMD resulted in three great stories.

    OMD had an effect on BACK IN BLACK. That was a story arc that JMS created after his initial plan of May getting shot leading straight to Mephisto was turned down. JMS then created Back in Black to pad out that period. The result is his final masterpiece.

    Matt Fraction wrote "To Have and to Hold" specifically as a pre-emptive protest of OMD. As he said, "It was sort of dirty pool because I knew One More Day was coming. But I took the shot and it was great. I don’t know if Peter Parker was the best marvel character to be married, and I understand both sides of the argument. When his marriage with MJ worked, it worked very well, but sometimes it seemed like people didn’t know what to do with MJ. Way too often MJ would be relegated to hostage or obstacle. Too seldom did she play the role of supporter, friend or nurturer. I thought it was possible to do all of that, and maybe it’s a cheap shot, but I took it."

    And likewise, Spencer wrote ASM #29 v. 5 (Legacy Numbering: #830) and that was a great story inspired by a terrible one.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob London View Post
    Spider-Island drew its main villain from an, uh, little-loved arc of Paul Jenkins' Spectacular Spider-Man.
    Excellent example.

  10. #10
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Ultimate Spider-Man's "Clone Saga" being based/inspired by the shaky example of the original.
    Bendis took a two year chaotic event and managed to create a nine-issue epic that, quite literally, changed Peter forever.
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  11. #11
    iMan 42s
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    The Clone Saga ultimately got us the Christopher Yost Scarlet Spider and the Ultimate Clone Saga. Hindsight and being far removed from it was for the best. Ultimate allowed it to be told in a manner that mostly worked. Kaine was a character who was also brimming with potential who fit Scarlet Spider better than the book's intended lead. Although that franchise is weirdly not used much and often not used with what made the reboot good like the expanded powers/lore, or new cast. It also led to the tumorous wart that is Clone Conspiracy, but Kaine and Ultimate Clone Saga are still good books.

    I don't agree at all with bringing Norman Osborn back, but it did bring us Dark Reign which did wonders to show just how awful the heroes had been acting at the time. Though you'd think they'd have learned from the experience.

    Lee Price Venom was crap but we got the current Venom book out of it. Granted we probably shouldn't fix what isn't broken, but it does provide a solid direction for Brock that we desperately needed.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    "life story" managed to turn a few lemons
    troo fan or death

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Ultimate Spider-Man's "Clone Saga" being based/inspired by the shaky example of the original.
    Bendis took a two year chaotic event and managed to create a nine-issue epic that, quite literally, changed Peter forever.
    Good one. The original also helped to inspire the Spider-Girl series, which I've been enjoying through the new reprints.

    Maybe a not quite the same, but the USM Ultimatum tie-ins were pretty good, even if the main event was reviled. Also agree that RYV was a nice perk from the OMD situation.
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  14. #14
    Mighty Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Ultimate Spider-Man's "Clone Saga" being based/inspired by the shaky example of the original.
    Bendis took a two year chaotic event and managed to create a nine-issue epic that, quite literally, changed Peter forever.
    To the utmost, I agree. A very succinct summary, WebSlingWonder.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Though the Clone Saga was terrible, and the method that was used to get Norman Osborn back was also crappy, Osborn has been involved with great stories since then. It's kind of mixed, as I'm against these retcons and the way they brought him back was just straight-up bad writing, yet afterwards he's been written as an effective villain both to Spider-Man and the General MU.

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