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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Pretty much this, and I would also argue in a lot of ways that people (and writers) who try to downplay her importance or relevance don't necessarily "get" Spider-Man as well as they might think they do.
    Whenever I hear people talk about MJ I never hear any of my favorite stories with her in it. Even worse, the ones people talk about feel massively shallow.

    It’s hard to cheer for MJ whenever I see that.

  2. #152
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    DO NOT open that can of worms that is the Star Wars sequel saga. It’s both Disney and JI Abbrams for that mess.
    Don't forget Rian Johnson, IMO, the biggest offender.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Ever get the feeling that people only read Spider-Man for MJ?
    The people who do that have every right to. They need no excuses, no justifications, and nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Whenever I hear people talk about MJ I never hear any of my favorite stories with her in it. Even worse, the ones people talk about feel massively shallow.

    It’s hard to cheer for MJ whenever I see that.
    That's a valid view. To express that, you need to discuss your favorite stories of her and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Agreed. What kills me is that there is this weird mindset from people that if you somehow prefer MJ in the issues you are somehow not a “real” fan because the title is about Spider-Man.
    With over 1100 appearances in 616 alone, Mary Jane is one of the three most recurring characters alongside Peter and Jameson. And yes, she was just as prominent in the titles before the marriage to all those "that's-only-because-of-the-marriage". So I think people who try to diminish her importance are the ones with blinders.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Not quite; "who is Snoke?" was just something the fans built up in their minds.
    They built it up because Abrams built up, teased it, and planted it there. The first movie had plenty of flashbacks and made much of Rey's connection to the lightsaber, her getting visions of Kylo massacring Luke's school. Snoke was played straight as a big scary figure, who Leia and Han said hoodwinked them and who Kylo speaks of in irreverence.

    So no, Abrams planted that there without any idea what that was about. And before anyone brings up how Lucas wasn't better...I'll remind you that until The Force Awakens there had never been a single flashback in any of the Star Wars films, either originals or prequels. Lucas may have altered stuff or quietly moved and changed from film to film but he never put in stuff in his movies that wasn't meant to have a payoff in some way. Abrams literally puts in redundancies because he has no clear idea what to tell.

  4. #154
    Fantastic Member SplinteringHeart's Avatar
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    I'm not up with all this about Abrams etc..I've had a look at the book and it seems quality, although..4.99 dollars puts me off, prices have just risen in the UK..but what made me not buy it is just as earlier post said..legacy type characters..I'm not a massive fan of, too many now in Spidey world, anyway if I went for a possible future, I'd go with that like Renew Your Vows, particularly that Pete and MJ's child is a girl..taps into "616" continuity..the baby stolen by Norman Osborn..

    Jon

  5. #155

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    I'm now more perplexed about the bait and switch.

    Granted, I didn't go into the comic blind so it might have a different effect for someone who just picked up a Spider-Man comic and didn't know what makes it unusual. But the hook is one that could sell a comic.

    It's kinda similar to the unnecessary secrecy of the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness.

  6. #156
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    DO NOT open that can of worms that is the Star Wars sequel saga. It’s both Disney and JI Abbrams for that mess.
    3axtpe.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    They built it up because Abrams built up, teased it, and planted it there. The first movie had plenty of flashbacks and made much of Rey's connection to the lightsaber, her getting visions of Kylo massacring Luke's school. Snoke was played straight as a big scary figure, who Leia and Han said hoodwinked them and who Kylo speaks of in irreverence.
    Most of the flashbacks were about Rey and her story. Rey and the saber had nothing to do with Snoke (that was all about her). Snoke was in the same boat as Palpatine in the original movies; the master of the main villain of the story. We didn't need to get the exacts of where'd he came from and all that. They weren't important to the story. (Besides, you want to know about Snoke, read the novelization; that's were minor details like that go.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    So no, Abrams planted that there without any idea what that was about. And before anyone brings up how Lucas wasn't better...I'll remind you that until The Force Awakens there had never been a single flashback in any of the Star Wars films, either originals or prequels. Lucas may have altered stuff or quietly moved and changed from film to film but he never put in stuff in his movies that wasn't meant to have a payoff in some way. Abrams literally puts in redundancies because he has no clear idea what to tell.
    Come December, we'll know for sure when the story is finished, however, as pointed out before, things have been paid off, it just that some people didn't like the answers or were asking the wrong questions from day one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I'm now more perplexed about the bait and switch.

    Granted, I didn't go into the comic blind so it might have a different effect for someone who just picked up a Spider-Man comic and didn't know what makes it unusual. But the hook is one that could sell a comic.

    It's kinda similar to the unnecessary secrecy of the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness.
    Seeing how things got out of hand with people during the buildup, it seems kinda fitting the final product is nothing like what we were sold.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #157
    Spectacular Member Spidey_62's Avatar
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    Not to knock on what this may or may not do for the rest of its course, as I do not know, but I just really appreciate what the original Spider-Girl run was even more in retrospect. It's probably the one alternate future that seems like it could feasibly be the future of the comics if Peter was allowed to retire at a certain point. It continues the spirit of the original Lee/Ditko run while also moving everything forward naturally and respectfully. Think about it, it took the first 35 years of Spidey continuity and only diverges/begins at the point where the biggest dumb retcons start coming in: The baby May/no it's Aunt May who's alive retcon in The Final Chapter.

    It just does what seems like would have been the natural outcome where it was baby May who was alive and goes from there. One final showdown with his greatest enemy (not some scary new guy) that costs him his leg, he hangs up the costume and wants to be there for his family (not a deadbeat like in this lol), and still has the urge to help (not like he refuses to lift a finger here lol) with his science skills at the police department.

  8. #158
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
    Not to knock on what this may or may not do for the rest of its course, as I do not know, but I just really appreciate what the original Spider-Girl run was even more in retrospect. It's probably the one alternate future that seems like it could feasibly be the future of the comics if Peter was allowed to retire at a certain point. It continues the spirit of the original Lee/Ditko run while also moving everything forward naturally and respectfully. Think about it, it took the first 35 years of Spidey continuity and only diverges/begins at the point where the biggest dumb retcons start coming in: The baby May/no it's Aunt May who's alive retcon in The Final Chapter.

    It just does what seems like would have been the natural outcome where it was baby May who was alive and goes from there. One final showdown with his greatest enemy (not some scary new guy) that costs him his leg, he hangs up the costume and wants to be there for his family (not a deadbeat like in this lol), and still has the urge to help (not like he refuses to lift a finger here lol) with his science skills at the police department.
    That reminds me: I really need to re-read Spider-Girl again. I keep hearing about these complete collections?
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  9. #159
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    That reminds me: I really need to re-read Spider-Girl again. I keep hearing about these complete collections?
    There are supposed to be two so far. One out already, the second coming soon if it hasn't been out already.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #160
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
    Was it wrong for the book to be marketed the way it was? Feels kind of wrong. Purporting it as a story about Peter and MJ together and working together with that cover undoubtedly got people interested as they know there's lots of fans who eat up seeing those two characters with each other.

    I'm sure some people going in blind will be either pleasantly surprised to find something unexpected or either feel robbed not getting what they were expecting, for lack of better words.
    I wasn't even aware this comic was marketed like this, that makes this first issue even worse, you expect one thing, but it was a bait and switch, and the switch is bland, just to rub salt in the wound even more.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    That reminds me: I really need to re-read Spider-Girl again. I keep hearing about these complete collections?
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    There are supposed to be two so far. One out already, the second coming soon if it hasn't been out already.
    The first two are out. They cover the first 32 issues of the series plus the What If that started it all. Kind of hoping everyone else joins in so we can at least get to volume 6 of the complete collections (presumably the first volume, 100 issues, in its entirety)
    Last edited by bob/.schoonover; 09-18-2019 at 07:06 PM.
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  12. #162
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
    Not to knock on what this may or may not do for the rest of its course, as I do not know, but I just really appreciate what the original Spider-Girl run was even more in retrospect. It's probably the one alternate future that seems like it could feasibly be the future of the comics if Peter was allowed to retire at a certain point. It continues the spirit of the original Lee/Ditko run while also moving everything forward naturally and respectfully. Think about it, it took the first 35 years of Spidey continuity and only diverges/begins at the point where the biggest dumb retcons start coming in: The baby May/no it's Aunt May who's alive retcon in The Final Chapter.

    It just does what seems like would have been the natural outcome where it was baby May who was alive and goes from there. One final showdown with his greatest enemy (not some scary new guy) that costs him his leg, he hangs up the costume and wants to be there for his family (not a deadbeat like in this lol), and still has the urge to help (not like he refuses to lift a finger here lol) with his science skills at the police department.
    I am reminded of what Ron Frenz said:

    “The idea that her first appearance since we wrapped the title is Pete and Mary Jane getting wiped out in the first three pages, it feels typical, completely expected because we always assumed that if anyone decided to relaunch Spider-Girl without us, the first thing they would do is kill Pete and/or Mary Jane...There was more than one editor in our run of 'Spider-Girl' who thought it would be great to kill Pete because then it gives her the whole tragic origin just like his. The very first annual, Tom DeFalco and Pat Olliffe did that cover with Mary Jane and Pete laying dead, and Spider-Girl's kneeling there mourning them, and they did it deliberately to 1) give the editor's what they wanted in the shocking cover, and 2) stick it to them because it didn't happen in the story. It was a story with Misery and she's showing May her worst fears. Our problem with it is, if you take away the family, then you have taken away the core of what Spider-Girl stories are about. The same way Spider-Man stories are about 'With great power, there must also come great responsibility,' Spider-Girl stories are about family and the positive aspects of being a superhero. That it does affect your life in a negative way, that it's hard, but that it's worth doing."
    [https://theswervemagazine.com/Spider...on_Frenz.html]

  13. #163
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I am reminded of what Ron Frenz said:

    “The idea that her first appearance since we wrapped the title is Pete and Mary Jane getting wiped out in the first three pages, it feels typical, completely expected because we always assumed that if anyone decided to relaunch Spider-Girl without us, the first thing they would do is kill Pete and/or Mary Jane...There was more than one editor in our run of 'Spider-Girl' who thought it would be great to kill Pete because then it gives her the whole tragic origin just like his. The very first annual, Tom DeFalco and Pat Olliffe did that cover with Mary Jane and Pete laying dead, and Spider-Girl's kneeling there mourning them, and they did it deliberately to 1) give the editor's what they wanted in the shocking cover, and 2) stick it to them because it didn't happen in the story. It was a story with Misery and she's showing May her worst fears. Our problem with it is, if you take away the family, then you have taken away the core of what Spider-Girl stories are about. The same way Spider-Man stories are about 'With great power, there must also come great responsibility,' Spider-Girl stories are about family and the positive aspects of being a superhero. That it does affect your life in a negative way, that it's hard, but that it's worth doing."
    [https://theswervemagazine.com/Spider...on_Frenz.html]
    I kind of wish the Abramses took that to heart with this. The tragic opening doesn't make for a fun read, just a bit too much melodrama.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  14. #164
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    This was an ok first issue. Nothing that knocked my socks off but decent enough to get me to get at least one more issue to see where it's going.

    It seems to clearly be an AU so I don't feel it has to be anything more than what it is - a story that will be complete unto itself with no ties to the main universe.

    Being an AU story, I'm not concerned with whether I think, say, Peter would or wouldn't act a certain way. This isn't 616 Peter so that doesn't matter. His personality doesn't have to line up perfectly with the original. He can act any way that the story demands (well, within reasonable limits at least!) and it's fine.

    I had no great sense of excitement going into this so, given that, I'd say it probably exceeded my low expectations.

  15. #165
    Mighty Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it and I didn't mind MJ's death since its an AU. I also think everyone's expectations on how that plays out is going to be subverted. With the girl in the tank... could be MJ? Could Cadaverous be from the future, or an alt reality? Is time going to be messed with? Who knows?

    I certainly do want to know what Peter has been up to and why he is not with his son. I demand a good explination for this!

    Anyway, can't wait to see what twists are coming next because they are claiming some pretty big twists and turns ahead. Expect the unexpected!

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