*MAJOR SPOILERS* The Secret of Spider-Man (2019) #1

[cranger]

No one is this many pages into the topic without having read the issue or the spoilers, I don't think tags are necessary.

I actually enjoyed this, which is nice since I changed my mind about putting it on my pull list but picked it up off the shelf anyway. The villain doesn't stand out with an impressive design or anything but I am curious to see how they are involved, and who the (blond?) woman in the tank is.

Ben is written well enough, very typical troubled kid with parent problems etc, but it leans on the Spider-Man legacy just right.

The art is amazing. It reminds me that sometimes I should be a lot more picky about art.

I am not a fan of the price tag, I think it only had a nicer cover and a couple more story pages (and some black pages that I am sure Marvel thinks count as story pages) but that is still a better deal that Absolute Carnage or HoXPoX but at least the rest will be regular price.

[WebSlingWonder]

No one is this many pages into the topic without having read the issue or the spoilers, I don't think tags are necessary.

I actually enjoyed this, which is nice since I changed my mind about putting it on my pull list but picked it up off the shelf anyway. The villain doesn't stand out with an impressive design or anything but I am curious to see how they are involved, and who the (blond?) woman in the tank is.

Ben is written well enough, very typical troubled kid with parent problems etc, but it leans on the Spider-Man legacy just right.

The art is amazing. It reminds me that sometimes I should be a lot more picky about art.

I am not a fan of the price tag, I think it only had a nicer cover and a couple more story pages (and some black pages that I am sure Marvel thinks count as story pages) but that is still a better deal that Absolute Carnage or HoXPoX but at least the rest will be regular price.

To that last point, I think that "Absolute Carnage" and HoX/PoX have leeway because they're listed as "events" (the former being more of an event than the latter). But otherwise, yes.

[Vegeta]

I mean, he had a son in Spider-Girl too, although Benjy was something of a latecomer. And he also had a regular prosethetic there, too. Presumably he didn't want to draw attention for having some kind of super advanced one that would lead to questions of where he got it.

Sorry if it was unclear, I assumed people would figure out based on the examples that I meant a son that inherited his spider-powers and mantle.

[jackolover]

spoilers:

It just occurred to me that this will be the first story to primarily feature a son of Spider-Man as opposed to a daughter. Have you guys noticed that? We've had heavy focus on Mayday, Annie, May from Earth X, and even Claire from Life Story got a big role. But the sons have been left out. So now, we actually have a story about a son.of Peter and developing him. I'm curious about that. What do you guys think?

end of spoilers

spoilers:

To me it looks a little like a rehash of Miles Morales, Ultimate Spider-Man, or, a revisiting of Peter Parker in Amazing Fantasy. #15 if you are doing

end of spoilers

[jackolover]

I particularly liked the teenage argument in the car, with his dad. Both lambasted each other for a good time, especially Ben telling Peter he was an absent father. Then something happened. Peter gave Ben a look..... Ben had tears in his eyes, and it might have been some shared knowledge about MJ? But after that, Peter and Ben were good. I saw Ben as a dysfunctional teen up till then, but after that tear and how Ben wished his dad a good flight, I think Ben is more than a dysfunctional kid - I think Ben has more about him than we are seeing here. You also see it with the scene with the green paint girl. Ben starts with his dig at the girl, but it ends up Ben has suddenly channeled her misery, and they are friends and connected.

Even though the sad part of the story happened, that didn’t have a big impact on me. And we got the two black pages to pass the 15 years gap, so we suddenly jump to a new story. Cadarvorous is still there 15 years later! It gave me the impression this is an Alternate Universe, so it has less gravitus than a 616 story. But like the first introduction to Mayday Parker, Ben Parker Spider-Man is this different Spider-Man, with an interesting background for a Parker boy. He comes out of a Spider family, and his great-aunt May knows he’s Spider-Man. This is totally different to the start of Peter Parker, 616 or Ultimate. And like Mayday, (who was this Shaman figure to her Universe), I think Ben Parker is going to have as big an influence on his environment as Mayday.

[jackolover]

Completely agreed. I liked the feel and atmosphere of those preview pages. The book was just a bit lifeless and boring after those scenes with Peter and MJ.

I wish the Abramms would do more flashbacks to MJ and Peter being parents to Bennie, because that was cut-short too fast.

[jackolover]

I think the miniseries that this is leads to its benefit. I keep telling people that if this is as bad as they think, it won't destroy the mythos: it'll just be a bad rendition of Spider-Man for a miniseries. We've had so many good minis recently, we were bound for a bad one. Meanwhile, 616 continues like normal and everything is fine lol

For myself, I’d like to see Peter fleshed out as this absent dad/widower, if he lives that long. I get this vibe Peter is dead at the end of issue #2. Peter of MC2 was a pretty bland character, but I’d want to know why Peter is traipsing around the world on planes, and what input he has into Bens life. A fathers job is to bring up his son with family traditions. Is this about Ben never getting this?

[jackolover]

I can’t say that this did much for me.

I really don’t like Pichelli’s art here either.

There is an inker involved that seems to have changed the style of Pichelli. I also noticed a difference in the art.

[jackolover]

Pretty much this, and I would also argue in a lot of ways that people (and writers) who try to downplay her importance or relevance don't necessarily "get" Spider-Man as well as they might think they do.

I’d appreciate an expansion of that comment. I’d just like to know the synygysm between Peter and Mary Jane and what makes it work. In that, what would Peter be like without MJ?

[Huntsman Spider]

I’d appreciate an expansion of that comment. I’d just like to know the synygysm between Peter and Mary Jane and what makes it work. In that, what would Peter be like without MJ?

That's a good question. I would say, without Mary Jane being in Peter's life, especially after Gwen Stacy's death, Peter could've easily sunk into misery, and Mary Jane was there to pull him out and remind him that he wasn't as alone as he thought he was, even if she didn't tell him then that she already knew or figured out that he was Spider-Man. That's just for starters, and I would add that without MJ revealing she knew who he was and them later solidifying their bond by sharing their pasts with each other and getting married, Peter might never have known what it was like to have a real confidante in his life, someone he could trust with his secrets and to help ease the burdens that he carried as a result of being Spider-Man. Maybe, to express it another way, Mary Jane Watson made Peter Parker less lonely and alienated and gave him a reason beyond just "responsibility" or a moral obligation to the uncle/father figure he got killed through his teenaged immaturity to be a hero. To relate that to this story, I'm hoping that even in her absence, her impact on Peter and Ben is still felt, and actually addressed, in the later chapters.

[jackolover]

That's a good question. I would say, without Mary Jane being in Peter's life, especially after Gwen Stacy's death, Peter could've easily sunk into misery, and Mary Jane was there to pull him out and remind him that he wasn't as alone as he thought he was, even if she didn't tell him then that she already knew or figured out that he was Spider-Man. That's just for starters, and I would add that without MJ revealing she knew who he was and them later solidifying their bond by sharing their pasts with each other and getting married, Peter might never have known what it was like to have a real confidante in his life, someone he could trust with his secrets and to help ease the burdens that he carried as a result of being Spider-Man. Maybe, to express it another way, Mary Jane Watson made Peter Parker less lonely and alienated and gave him a reason beyond just "responsibility" or a moral obligation to the uncle/father figure he got killed through his teenaged immaturity to be a hero. To relate that to this story, I'm hoping that even in her absence, her impact on Peter and Ben is still felt, and actually addressed, in the later chapters.

Thanks Huntsman. Great insight.

And to further your comment on MJ’s legacy in this story, there is this great big legacy called Bennie standing right there for Peter to be part of his story. It’s all Mary Jane. And I like how you incorporated MJ standing in for Peters father/uncle figure too. You can’t have Spider-Man without MJ. I’d say, like you, Peter would fly out of control.

[Huntsman Spider]

Thanks Huntsman. Great insight.

And to further your comment on MJ’s legacy in this story, there is this great big legacy called Bennie standing right there for Peter to be part of his story. It’s all Mary Jane. And I like how you incorporated MJ standing in for Peters father/uncle figure too. You can’t have Spider-Man without MJ. I’d say, like you, Peter would fly out of control.

You're welcome, and that is a good point about young Ben Parker II being as much Mary Jane's legacy as he is Peter's. Perhaps that's why Peter has such a hard time being around him, that he sees too much of the woman he loved and lost in him. That being said, it is definitely no excuse for him to not be around, though I'm hoping later issues will expand on what Peter has been doing in the last 12 or so years since Mary Jane's grisly death so we have at least some context for his actions beyond speculation.

[The tall man]

Thanks Huntsman. Great insight.

And to further your comment on MJ’s legacy in this story, there is this great big legacy called Bennie standing right there for Peter to be part of his story. It’s all Mary Jane. And I like how you incorporated MJ standing in for Peters father/uncle figure too. You can’t have Spider-Man without MJ. I’d say, like you, Peter would fly out of control.

Doesn't this line of thinking make Peter a lesser character? To say he cannot stand on his own or be a great character without MJ propping him up. Peter should be great irregardless of MJ's presence, to reduce him as less than if MJ is not around does a great disservice to him. One would be tempted to think that's it's MJ and not Peter who is the center of the spider mythos with all the praise and importance she gets. And yes you can most certainly have Spider-man without MJ, all you need for Spider-man is Peter. He became Spider-man long before MJ came into the picture, and Uncle Ben and all the lessons he taught him was his foundation. If MJ never came into Peter's life he would still be the greatest hero in the MU. The same Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man helping people because its who he is, he doesn't need MJ for that. And to say Peter is nothing without MJ is insulting to him as character and as Marvel's greatest hero. Besides would anyone view a female character as worthless if she didn't have man to prop her up? Do MJ fans view her as less than if Peter is not in her life? I have nothing against MJ but I am a Peter fan first and foremost and I don't like this narrative that Peter is nothing without MJ. No character should be so dependent on another especially one as prominent and iconic as Spider-man. MJ's presence should enhance Peter but her absence should not lessen or take away his worth or value. He is a hero always.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Doesn't this line of thinking make Peter a lesser character?

Is Han Solo a lesser character without Princess Leia? Considering that the movie SOLO (Han without Leia and Luke) became the first Star Wars movie to fail at the box-office, the answer to that would be yes.

But does that mean Han is a lesser character? I don't think so.

I have nothing against MJ but I am a Peter fan first and foremost and I don't like this narrative that Peter is nothing without MJ.

The truth is that stories are organic messy things. The emotional center of Spider-Man's stories for a lot of people is the love story with Mary Jane. Emotional center is a very vague thing but its the organic substance of the story. Something that you can't just plot on a graph or write snappy dialogue to weave into existence.

Technically you can tell the story of Luke Skywalker's triumph over the Dark Side without Han and Leia. After all, there was no need for Luke to visit Cloud City since none of Luke's actions lead to Han and Leia's rescue. Likewise, Han and Leia don't do a great deal in Return of the Jedi in the Battle at Endor. But emotionally, Han and Leia show Luke why he fights, gives him a reason for what he believes in, and also factor in as to why he, unlike Dad, would not succumb to the dark side.

I'd say in the Spider-Man mythos, Mary Jane represents Peter's future, a bright hope, and is basically the main optimistic figure of the Spider-Man mythos. Uncle Ben represents guilt, Aunt May represents responsibility, Jonah Jameson represents Spider-Man's guilty conscience and a warning for what he could be, while Mary Jane represents forgiveness. She's someone who has experienced similar gullt like Peter has, someone who Peter unburdens his past too, and unlike every girl he knew, she accepts both sides of him. There isn't anyone to take her place. Mary Jane has always been this figure of hope. Right from her introduction, then the end of ASM #122 where she stays with Peter in his lowest moment, and in Kraven's Last Hunt, where her memory brings Peter back to life. Likewise in Doomed Affairs. And of course in Raimi's Spider-Man 1.

[WebLurker]

Is Han Solo a lesser character without Princess Leia? Considering that the movie SOLO (Han without Leia and Luke) became the first Star Wars movie to fail at the box-office, the answer to that would be yes.

Not having Luke or Leia in it wasn't one of the movie's problems.