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  1. #226
    Incredible Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    What an...odd issue. Canít think of another way to describe it. I donít know what I was expecting, but it certainly wasnít this.
    Canít even say what I thought of it.

    I will say it received unnecessary hype, and the story inside, so far, hasnít seemed deserving of the hype. But Iíll see where we go from here.

  2. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    spoilers:
    I'd prefer neither died but if I had to pick one Aunt May would be my choice. She is older and has a less direct connection to the son and has historically lacked agency of any sort, unlike MJ.
    end of spoilers
    This gets messy.

    spoilers:
    In the real world, people do sometimes die without agency and it is worth exploring the ramifications of that in fiction. It isn't just about motivating the character, but what it means for Peter to have to raise a child by himself, and to suck at it (at least in the first issue.)
    end of spoilers

  3. #228
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    I thought it was ok. It's not nearly the event Marvel hyped it up as, since it's just another alternate reality/ possible future universe. I'm certainly not as "outraged" as other posters over MJ's death (not 616, and there may be more at play here anyways.)

    It was however, a refreshing pace to see Peter have a son for a change. (We have had at least two realities now with daughters, and whatever is the story with Old Man Logan's Ashley Barton and the Spider-Girl that hung out with Maestro from Bendis's Avengers run.) So that at least has my interest. Not sure why Peter has such a lousy prosthetic though. He is friends with the FF and Tony Stark, and he himself has built pretty impressive devices in time of need.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  4. #229
    Fantastic Member Yvonmukluk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    I thought it was ok. It's not nearly the event Marvel hyped it up as, since it's just another alternate reality/ possible future universe. I'm certainly not as "outraged" as other posters over MJ's death (not 616, and there may be more at play here anyways.)

    It was however, a refreshing pace to see Peter have a son for a change. (We have had at least two realities now with daughters, and whatever is the story with Old Man Logan's Ashley Barton and the Spider-Girl that hung out with Maestro from Bendis's Avengers run.) So that at least has my interest. Not sure why Peter has such a lousy prosthetic though. He is friends with the FF and Tony Stark, and he himself has built pretty impressive devices in time of need.
    I mean, he had a son in Spider-Girl too, although Benjy was something of a latecomer. And he also had a regular prosethetic there, too. Presumably he didn't want to draw attention for having some kind of super advanced one that would lead to questions of where he got it.

  5. #230
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This gets messy.

    spoilers:
    In the real world, people do sometimes die without agency and it is worth exploring the ramifications of that in fiction. It isn't just about motivating the character, but what it means for Peter to have to raise a child by himself, and to suck at it (at least in the first issue.)
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    I contend this is simply an excuse so JJ & son can pen a father/son adventure using recycled plot elements from far better stories, how cheap & disgusting. Well, they won't be getting any more of my hard-earned money.
    end of spoilers JJ Abrams has been married for 23 years, so I'm guessing spoilers:
    a father/ son team cowriting a story about a Peter Parker raising his son after the death of Mary Jane
    end of spoilers isn't meant to be aspirational.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #231
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This gets messy.

    spoilers:
    In the real world, people do sometimes die without agency and it is worth exploring the ramifications of that in fiction. It isn't just about motivating the character, but what it means for Peter to have to raise a child by himself, and to suck at it (at least in the first issue.)
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    True, but this is a super-hero comic book, so death just happening at random just looks worse, since at the end of the day, super heroes are about being cool, the story would need to be more like Watchmen with how the characters are treated for MJ's death to be seen as more "acceptable", and it's not looking like the writters are doing it like that, and MJ just got bridged for the sake of making Peter depressed, instead of being something that "just happens".
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    I thought it was ok. It's not nearly the event Marvel hyped it up as, since it's just another alternate reality/ possible future universe. I'm certainly not as "outraged" as other posters over MJ's death (not 616, and there may be more at play here anyways.)

    It was however, a refreshing pace to see Peter have a son for a change. (We have had at least two realities now with daughters, and whatever is the story with Old Man Logan's Ashley Barton and the Spider-Girl that hung out with Maestro from Bendis's Avengers run.) So that at least has my interest. Not sure why Peter has such a lousy prosthetic though. He is friends with the FF and Tony Stark, and he himself has built pretty impressive devices in time of need.
    His depression makes him as bad at making prosthetics as he's bad as a father .

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    spoilers:
    iíd prefer if female characters were treated as equally important to the story as male characters and not killed off to create cheap drama that isnít earned
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    The story is called Spider-Man. By nature, she'll never be more important to the story than him.
    end of spoilers

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    spoilers:
    The story is called Spider-Man. By nature, she'll never be more important to the story than him.
    end of spoilers
    my post was in response to the hypothetical question of if we would rather see spoilers:
    aunt may die instead of mj
    end of spoilers and should be taken in that hypothetical context. not out of context as you took it.

    my point is the question shouldn't be which female character should die. gender shouldn't automatically make one character likely to be killed off just for shock value than another
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 09-22-2019 at 06:20 PM.

  9. #234
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    What an...odd issue. Can’t think of another way to describe it. I don’t know what I was expecting, but it certainly wasn’t this.
    Can’t even say what I thought of it.

    I will say it received unnecessary hype, and the story inside, so far, hasn’t seemed deserving of the hype. But I’ll see where we go from here.
    My feelings as well.
    AKA FlashFreak
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    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), The Atom (Ray Palmer) , Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
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    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Venom, Immortal Hulk, Guardians of The Galaxy, Absolute Carnage, Justice League, & Shazam!

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This gets messy.

    spoilers:
    In the real world, people do sometimes die without agency and it is worth exploring the ramifications of that in fiction. It isn't just about motivating the character, but what it means for Peter to have to raise a child by himself, and to suck at it (at least in the first issue.)
    end of spoilers
    comic books aren't real life

    spoilers:
    killing a female character to explore a male character becoming a sucky single father is still killing a female character so the male character can learn something about himself. it's fridging

    also it's not about death without agency. it's that they took away any agency she should have possessed. why would mj go to a battle scene without protection or back up? why didn't mj run when the bad guys came at them? in dan slott's renew your vows mj doesn't wait for venom to kill her. she finds a way to fight back

    she could be unsuccessful and die. they could tell the same story. but the character would have been active and not a passive damsel to be murdered
    end of spoilers

    but in the end this is an au so it's insignificant and has no real impact.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 09-22-2019 at 07:18 PM. Reason: too many words

  11. #236
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    comic books aren't real life

    spoilers:
    killing a female character just so they can explore how a male character becomes a sucky single father is still killing a female character solely so the male character can learn something about himself. it's still fridging

    also it's not about death without agency. it's that they took away any agency she should have possessed. why would mj go to a battle scene without protection or back up? why didn't mj run when the bad guys came at them? instead she is depicted standing and watching so Cadaverous can impale her from behind

    in dan slott's renew your vows mj doesn't wait for venom to kill her. she finds a way to fight back. why isn't this mj fighting back? the outcome can be the same. they could tell the same story. but the character would have been active and not a passive damsel to be murdered
    end of spoilers

    but in the end this is an au so it's insignificant and has no real impact.
    spoilers:
    Yup, they needed to get MJ out of the way so JJ & son could tell the story they wanted to tell. To accomplish their goal they had MJ lose all all sense and act OOC. Terrible writing 101 - change the established characters to fit the plot, not the plot to fit the established characters.
    end of spoilers
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #237
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Nick Lowe seems like a very competent editor and I have liked just about every Spidey book that has come out under his watch. With that being said, I can't seem to wrap my head around him hearing this pitch and not saying, "This story has been done before, what else do you have?" I guess because it's JJ Abrams?
    AKA FlashFreak
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    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Venom, Immortal Hulk, Guardians of The Galaxy, Absolute Carnage, Justice League, & Shazam!

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonmukluk View Post
    I mean, he had a son in Spider-Girl too, although Benjy was something of a latecomer. And he also had a regular prosethetic there, too. Presumably he didn't want to draw attention for having some kind of super advanced one that would lead to questions of where he got it.
    He also had a son in Life Story.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    spoilers:
    The story is called Spider-Man. By nature, she'll never be more important to the story than him.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Pretty sure tinkerspider said equally important not more important.
    end of spoilers

  15. #240
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Nick Lowe seems like a very competent editor and I have liked just about every Spidey book that has come out under his watch. With that being said, I can't seem to wrap my head around him hearing this pitch and not saying, "This story has been done before, what else do you have?" I guess because it's JJ Abrams?
    That's likely exactly what happened. Remember that according to Lowe, he's been trying to get this done for 10 years. If after all that time, he may have taken up any story that JJ would write.
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