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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant_Lover View Post
    Weren't Cloak and Dagger referred to as Mutates and not Mutants?
    Cloak and Dagger are indeed mutates based on how they gained their powers...


  2. #17
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Wasn’t it ambiguous for a long time? They had a series called The Mutant Misadventures of Cloak and Dagger, and their origin always was sketchy. I remember they had a tenure as members of the X-Men, and wasn’t it there where they were confirmed to be mutates?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Cloak and Dagger are indeed mutates based on how they gained their powers...

    Unless it's been retconned, Cloak & Dagger are mutants.


  4. #19
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    It was confirmed by Dr. Nemesis that they don’t have the X-gene. I think it was always kind of ambiguous, them being teenage runaways and all. The title above seems a bit deceptive if they weren’t always committed to them being mutants.

  5. #20
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    Like Namor I suspect. Just add murant in his name for extra sales !

  6. #21
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    It’s funny as C/D have many hallmarks of being mutants. They’ve called themselves mutants, that’s been their title, they’ve hung out with mutants, and they’ve been freaking X-Men. Yet they’re not mutants overall.

    Heh, some mutates just gotta be appropriating something that isn’t theirs.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    If you really want to split hairs, consider that Doctor Doom isn't officially superhuman. Everything from his advanced science, gadgets, armor, magitek and even the sorcery itself, are things that he learned. He has no real powers to call his own. That's the core of his appeal to, as he's a guy who went from a peasant to the most dangerous supervillain who ever lived.
    Except Doom HAS developed the psionic ability to switch minds with another person, and has done so on more than one occasion.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Is the source of it magic?

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    When Carol Davers was experimented on by the Brood, she became "the cosmic-powered mutate named Binary".

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Is the source of it magic?
    He learned it from aliens, so it's not clear.

    In the Marvel universe, one can be 'taught' telepathy, and even telekinesis. Moondragon, Mantis, 'Bob' the Uranian of the Agents of Atlas. are all examples of non-mutant humans who were trained by aliens to have powerful psychic abilities. Various magicians, like Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dr. Druid, etc. also use three different sources of power, according to the old Marvel Handbooks, one of which is 'trained' powers like telepathy and telekinesis. SHIELD has, at times, also had dozens of 'sensitives' that are human psychics that don't appear to be mutants.

    Presumably Doom's mind-swapping ability is similar, since it's described as something he 'learned' from them, not something he developed after they injected him with some nanobots or gene-triggering serum or hit with some mutagenic ray or whatever.

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    That'd be good so long as it's learned.

    I'm very much against the idea of Doctor Doom just getting a superpower. One of the reasons he's so appealing, among others, is that he's the epitome of a self-made man. Everything from his vast empire, unlimited wealth, cunning tactics and manipulative power, scientific knowledge of every field, scholarship of the magical arts, and the ability to combine both sides of science and sorcery to create magitek, all came from him being able to learn those things. It's also why he's cooler than the FF (among other reasons), considering they were middle-class White-Americans who got their powers instantly in an accident and essentially got a free ticket to being celebrities. Doom represents going about it the hard way, as opposed to just getting a big break. It's also why his ego is such a charm -- sure, he talks a big game, but he's got the skill, experience and power to back it up.

    Doom just getting a power by a random accident would completely go against it. It's also why Fox's attempts to streamline his origin and make him more "accessible" are total failures.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Unless it's been retconned, Cloak & Dagger are mutants.

    Thanks for the pic -- I was looking to get this issue since it was mentioned earlier today. Did you read the OHOTMU page I posted earlier? It is said that Cloak and Dagger were victims of an experiment. Mutants are born; Cloak and Dagger were not.
    Last edited by Shreene; 09-17-2019 at 06:37 PM.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    It’s funny as C/D have many hallmarks of being mutants. They’ve called themselves mutants, that’s been their title, they’ve hung out with mutants, and they’ve been freaking X-Men. Yet they’re not mutants overall.

    Heh, some mutates just gotta be appropriating something that isn’t theirs.
    I thought the argument was that they were mutants but their latent X-Genes were triggered through some other means. Sort of similar to how stress can be a trigger and Magneto didn't get his mutant abilities until adulthood.

    Personally, I'm less a fan of things like this because it ruins the coming of age aspect of being a mutant and it makes them too similar to a traditional superhero origin story. This is especially true for Cloak and Dagger, who don't need to be mutants to explain their origin precisely because they are mutates. That being said, I have no idea if the mutant thing was retconned away or not.
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  14. #29
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    They used the term mutate all the time during the original Genosha slave trade era.

  15. #30
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    He learned it from aliens, so it's not clear.

    In the Marvel universe, one can be 'taught' telepathy, and even telekinesis. Moondragon, Mantis, 'Bob' the Uranian of the Agents of Atlas. are all examples of non-mutant humans who were trained by aliens to have powerful psychic abilities. Various magicians, like Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dr. Druid, etc. also use three different sources of power, according to the old Marvel Handbooks, one of which is 'trained' powers like telepathy and telekinesis. SHIELD has, at times, also had dozens of 'sensitives' that are human psychics that don't appear to be mutants.

    Presumably Doom's mind-swapping ability is similar, since it's described as something he 'learned' from them, not something he developed after they injected him with some nanobots or gene-triggering serum or hit with some mutagenic ray or whatever.
    Yup. Frankly, I've always wanted someone to mention this to the X-Telepaths and insult them for being remedial mutants or somesuch.
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