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  1. #1
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    Default The Expendables vs a Alien Queen (Xenomorphs)

    Can they kill one?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator The Watcher's Avatar
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    Since the OP hasn't stated any circumstances or conditions, thus rendering this a default match, the answer is yes. The Expendables standard gear includes enough firepower and explosives to do the job and the fact they start out in the Arena with a 100 feet between them means they'll definitely get a chance to get a bunch of shots off before the Queen gets within melee range of any of them.

    They'll definitely take casualties since I don't think their initial shots will put her down quick enough to avoid that but the Queen will end up dying in the end.
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    for all of her size she is NOT a fast mover. a couple of the Expendables can stand point and lay down some fire while the others back up a ways and repeat that process. sure, she'll get a couple of them... but it would be impossible for her to kill them all. and any single member of the team has enough lethal fire power to take out the Alien Queen. so, while not a curbstomp by any means, there's no way the Expendables are losing this. they've got numbers, attack range, and are in a large open space called Khazan Arena where the queen has absolutely no options apart from bum rushing them and getting killed or running away and getting killed.

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    How does the Alien Queen handle shots from an AA-12 automatic shotgun? Because that's what Hale Caesar carries into battle. And if we include all Expendables in this, including the dead, then they have a sniper in Billy "The Kid".
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  5. #5
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    The guys blow the big big away.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Yeah, what everyone else said. It's important to note that the Queen's main threat isn't actually herself despite her great power and strength, it's the fact that she spawns an entire army and can therefore infest whole planets. Without that army, she's more or less a sitting duck.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Jonathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Watcher View Post
    Since the OP hasn't stated any circumstances or conditions, thus rendering this a default match, the answer is yes. The Expendables standard gear includes enough firepower and explosives to do the job and the fact they start out in the Arena with a 100 feet between them means they'll definitely get a chance to get a bunch of shots off before the Queen gets within melee range of any of them.

    They'll definitely take casualties since I don't think their initial shots will put her down quick enough to avoid that but the Queen will end up dying in the end.
    Actually, if the Expendables have access to all their weapons, she goes down very, very quickly. In Expendables 2, during the opening scene where they were raiding a terrorist camp of some sort to rescue Arnie's character, they had at least one rocket launcher, and I think 2(I think there was one in each of those armored cars they were operating).

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    Short Answer: No.
    Long Answer: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! The Poor Expendables get utterly slaughtered here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dog View Post
    How does the Alien Queen handle shots from an AA-12 automatic shotgun? Because that's what Hale Caesar carries into battle. And if we include all Expendables in this, including the dead, then they have a sniper in Billy "The Kid".
    Damn well, considering bullets and explosive projectiles from the Colonial Marines's weapons (which are at least just as lethal and potent as the shit the Expendables carry) all bounce off the Queen Alien's skin like nothing. And they can even trade blows with Predators and even kill them too. The same Predators who can kill all of Dutch's team (save for Dutch, whom only got lucky) and have enough experience to defeat highly trained special forces soldiers or nearly any other members of the human race strong enough to challenge them both physically and technologically with similar firepower.

    https://youtu.be/RS-x1AzjqLQ?t=165

    ^ Queen Alien survived being burned by Ripley's flamethrower, taking grenade rounds from Ripley's Pulse Rifle, and the entire chamber room exploding as a result of Ripley's grenade belt. And had to be defeated in the end through being sucked out into space when nothing else worked on her.

    And even weaker breeds of Xenomorphs can take some armor-piercing rounds and even some explosions (in one comic, they can even shrug off a claymore mine explosion) and still fight on.
    https://imgur.com/a/dXzscSh
    https://imgur.com/a/t7sHYY5

    And lmao at any single Expendables member (even Booker, whose best feat is destroying a tank) being able to put her down when nothing short of their explosives would do anything more than get her attention (their best tactic would be to retreat for the sake of their own safety) and when she routinely treats vast numbers of heavily armed Colonial Marines and their weapons like utter trash lol.

  10. #10

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    I wasn't aware we were using expanded canon? Im sure there are plenty of good feats there. Based off of movie showings alone, she gets killed here.

    1: She wasn't the target of the flame thrower. We can clearly see in the vid you provided that she doesn't take a direct hit from the thing. At best, she stands in a bit of burning debris briefly. 2: Those grenade shots were ripping her up just fine. For some inexplicable reason (plot), Ripley decided to shoot the non vital egg sac laying thing instead of her torso or head. 3: likewise, that grenade belt scored no direct hits. We can see this on camera in the vid you provided. In fact, Ripley was closer to the blast then the Queen was.

    But again, sure, if expanded canon is allowed it probably changes things.
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  11. #11
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    At the risk of being serious when it comes to he group from The Expendables...

    It feels like they would stand a decent chance of Booker just happening by.

    If he is in play, that swings the advantage towards them in a pretty serious fashion.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy Warner View Post
    Damn well, considering bullets and explosive projectiles from the Colonial Marines's weapons (which are at least just as lethal and potent as the shit the Expendables carry) all bounce off the Queen Alien's skin like nothing. And they can even trade blows with Predators and even kill them too. The same Predators who can kill all of Dutch's team (save for Dutch, whom only got lucky) and have enough experience to defeat highly trained special forces soldiers or nearly any other members of the human race strong enough to challenge them both physically and technologically with similar firepower.

    https://youtu.be/RS-x1AzjqLQ?t=165

    ^ Queen Alien survived being burned by Ripley's flamethrower, taking grenade rounds from Ripley's Pulse Rifle, and the entire chamber room exploding as a result of Ripley's grenade belt. And had to be defeated in the end through being sucked out into space when nothing else worked on her.

    And even weaker breeds of Xenomorphs can take some armor-piercing rounds and even some explosions (in one comic, they can even shrug off a claymore mine explosion) and still fight on.
    https://imgur.com/a/dXzscSh
    https://imgur.com/a/t7sHYY5

    And lmao at any single Expendables member (even Booker, whose best feat is destroying a tank) being able to put her down when nothing short of their explosives would do anything more than get her attention (their best tactic would be to retreat for the sake of their own safety) and when she routinely treats vast numbers of heavily armed Colonial Marines and their weapons like utter trash lol.
    On that...

    It is worth taking note of that Ripley had to go after the eggs before the Queen. Take that being the case out of the equation, and the Queen surviving is not a certainty.

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    Yeah, the Queen's main advantage, other than her army, is, oddly enough for something so large, stealth. She's really good at sneaking up on people and backstabbing them while they don't know she's anywhere near them. Which is why the plot contrives to give her an environment in which her stealth is usable. The arena doesn't have that. She's basically a huge D&D rogue suddenly teleported out into the open with spotlights on her.

    Indeed, both the original alien and the alien-queen are fundamentally high-end rogues. Sticking her in an arena in which both her bonus to stealth-rolls and backstab-bonus-damage are negated reduces her threat level massively.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy Warner View Post
    Damn well, considering bullets and explosive projectiles from the Colonial Marines's weapons (which are at least just as lethal and potent as the shit the Expendables carry) all bounce off the Queen Alien's skin like nothing. And they can even trade blows with Predators and even kill them too. The same Predators who can kill all of Dutch's team (save for Dutch, whom only got lucky) and have enough experience to defeat highly trained special forces soldiers or nearly any other members of the human race strong enough to challenge them both physically and technologically with similar firepower.

    https://youtu.be/RS-x1AzjqLQ?t=165

    ^ Queen Alien survived being burned by Ripley's flamethrower, taking grenade rounds from Ripley's Pulse Rifle, and the entire chamber room exploding as a result of Ripley's grenade belt. And had to be defeated in the end through being sucked out into space when nothing else worked on her.

    And even weaker breeds of Xenomorphs can take some armor-piercing rounds and even some explosions (in one comic, they can even shrug off a claymore mine explosion) and still fight on.
    https://imgur.com/a/dXzscSh
    https://imgur.com/a/t7sHYY5

    And lmao at any single Expendables member (even Booker, whose best feat is destroying a tank) being able to put her down when nothing short of their explosives would do anything more than get her attention (their best tactic would be to retreat for the sake of their own safety) and when she routinely treats vast numbers of heavily armed Colonial Marines and their weapons like utter trash lol.
    if you are going to argue using comic book feats for Star Wars, Star Trek, or Alien you should state that clearly at the start of your post. since it won't become clear until people follow your links. and some people (perhaps even most) might not click on your links for concerns of internet security and safety. so you should just get that out of the way in the beginning of your post. just name the title of the comic and let people know right off the bat.

    unless people specific that the comics are being used as reference material we typically only use the movies. we treat the films, all by themselves, as the primary reference point. writers in comics are essentially writing parallel universe fan fictions where they are "rule of cooling" it-- so as to make the Xenomorph even more awesome than they might otherwise be based purely on movie showings. like Star Wars, or Star Trek, if somebody wants to use extra material from comics, the expanded universe, or whatever else... then they need to specify that in the opening post.

    this is why the Watcher, and everybody else, has argued in the manner that they have. because the OP doesn't specify any details and thus the fight automatically defaults to only using the cinematic Xenomorph feats and defaults to the Khazan Arena... which is a huge open are with absolutely nowhere for the Xenomorph Queen to take cover and launch ambushes. if you put a huge target in the middle of a giant sand field that is NOT completely immune to small arms fire and surround that target with people who have high powered automatic weapons, pistols, and rocket launchers... the end result is pretty clear.

    based on the films there are no "breeds" of Xenomorph. you simply have eggs, facehuggers, drones, and queens. they can adapt to the form of their host - but they're basically the same. I have to assume that 'breeds' are from the comics which aren't relevant unless the OP includes them.

    the feats of Xenomorphs surviving armor piercing rounds can only be from the comics since I literally just watched "Aliens" last weekend and have no memory of them EVER shrugging off armor-piercing rounds... since it's been shown that even basic high-powered rifles have enough 'oomph' to take down a Xenomorph.

    the only time I can recall a Xenomorph shrugging off bullets is when Gorman fired several low velocity pistol rounds at one inside of the air duct. this happened because he fired glancing blows off the top of the head of a Xenomorph that was crawling towards him. Gorman was also shown to be clearly inferior to the other soldiers in terms of durability and fighting ability. and the pistol has (had) significantly less velocity and stopping power compared to the rifles they were using. even here, the pistol was shown to stop them... at the very least to force them to retreat. so, even a basic pistol round can work well enough to discourage them.

    now, for grenades... Ripley never even ONCE aimed a grenade directly at the queen. she aimed ALL of them at the egg sac and the eggs themselves. Ripley clearly intended to kill ALL of the eggs and leave the Queen all by herself with nobody else - it doesn't make a ton of sense in the long term - but it makes sense for Ripley on an emotional level because this Queen stole literally everything Ripley ever had and left her alone... so, "payback is a bitch".

    likewise the string of grenades being set off around the eggs is not a pure durability feat for the Queen either - since those grenades were thrown into the vicinity of the egg field. those eggs were the target - and they also would have absorbed a lot of that damage because those grenades were sitting... ON THE GROUND. they weren't all blowing up in the Queen's face.

    so this proves that the Queen can ignore a certain amount of basic frag damage that would kill people. but that doesn't mean that she can ignore a direct hit from a high explosive. yeah, she has an exoskeleton, so that helps... which is why Xenomorphs can survive claymores as well as they do... because claymores are typically used on SOFT, UNARMORED TARGETS. the claymore is essentially a giant shotgun. now, it's worth pointing out that a point-blank hit from a shotgun was enough to discourage a Xenomorph enough to allow the marines to close the door and escape in their armored car.

    you have to ask yourself... why are Xenomorphs even afraid of flamethrowers to begin with if they are as tough as you think they are?

    in the films, even one or two bullets are shown to very often easily kill these things. characters, however, get caught up in the moment, and use far more ammunition than is necessary. we're shown this repeatedly. so this doesn't mean that the Xenomorphs are bullet proof. what it means is that those Colonial Marines panicked and had very poor fire control. notice how Drake and Vasquez are using short, controlled bursts of five rounds to score the vast majority of their kills. the fact that these frequently kill offscreen creatures shouldn't negate the fact that as little as five bullets from 10 mm rounds is enough to put down a Xenomorph permanently. and proven effects of those 10 mm rounds aren't demonstrably beyond the ability of what the Expandables are shown to carry on a regular basis.

    again, the comics are not 'primary canon'. this is also where the Xenomorphs get all of their best feats come from... and for a lot of these it feels like "Spider Man vs Firelord" since they're shrugging off things that very clearly, and easily, killed them in the movies.

    and, as a general rule, we treat that like it's own affair since the comics frequently amp up the abilities of the Xenomorph for the sake of fun and drama - it's not unlike comparing Jedi and Sith in the EU stories and films to what we are shown in the movie. a classic example is comparing Genndy Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" to the original live action films. if you want to use Mace Windu from that cartoon you need to say so... because that version of Windu could eat the regular version of Mace Windu, Yoda, and Darth Sidious for breakfast in a fight and not even break a sweat.

    again, unless specifically pointed out in the OP, we only use the films as reference. let's be honest, 95% of the people who debate about Xenomorphs will have ONLY seen the films. like Star Wars or Star Trek, it will always be the default reference here on CBR since that's what people are familiar with. and in this case, it is a very clear victory for the Expendables.

    even if we grant those Xenomorph feats from the comics it is clear that the Xenomorph took heavy damage and is not simply ignoring it.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Yeah, the Queen's main advantage, other than her army, is, oddly enough for something so large, stealth. She's really good at sneaking up on people and backstabbing them while they don't know she's anywhere near them. Which is why the plot contrives to give her an environment in which her stealth is usable. The arena doesn't have that. She's basically a huge D&D rogue suddenly teleported out into the open with spotlights on her.

    Indeed, both the original alien and the alien-queen are fundamentally high-end rogues. Sticking her in an arena in which both her bonus to stealth-rolls and backstab-bonus-damage are negated reduces her threat level massively.
    I just realized that my next D&D game should totally have a stone giant rogue.

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