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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    As mentioned by Slade1, he only has the one Flash fight where he demonstrates /reaction/ speeds on that level. But nobody wants to argue those away. And rightly so imo.



    Other mediums dont particularly matter when we are discussing this one version of the guy. He's different. That and his power set was soooo loosely defined. He was a veritable Swiss Army knife.

    So, I guess you want to argue Gladiator doesn't have awesome sauce super speed? I mean, most of his showings he doesn't use it after all.

    Again, I feel a little leniency is in order for folks with very few showings to work off of.
    Gladiator has feats of outright clear cut superspeed. Apoc has one vague feat. They are not comparable at all.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Gladiator has feats of outright clear cut superspeed. Apoc has one vague feat. They are not comparable at all.
    Why not? The dude has tremendous reflexes. Based on his showings.

    He can also multitask like CRAZY, simultaneously fighting on the physical and meta physical planes. His brain works very quickly.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Why not? The dude has tremendous reflexes. Based on his showings.

    He can also multitask like CRAZY, simultaneously fighting on the physical and meta physical planes. His brain works very quickly.
    What tremendous reflexes outside of the one off showing against Quicksilver? Everything he did, physical movement speed wise, I could replicate. He can multitask but that's not really a speed feat, especially since he has a personal force field around himself which allows him to not have to worry too much about being overwhelmed.

  4. #19
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    Apocalypse catching Quicksilver really didn't read as a reaction feat to me. I took it as Apocalypse taking a beating until he figured out where Peter was going to attack from, then setting a trap under there. It seemed kinda significant that he didn't just throw out a wall or punch as soon as Quicksilver started attacking.

    I think that you're also overstating his multi-tasking ability; he never does two complicated actions at once. He was either paying attention to the mental world or the physical world, and he was mostly just keeping his defense up and taking the occasional shot in either.

  5. #20
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Yea, why we over-hyping Ivan Ooze ?
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    What tremendous reflexes outside of the one off showing against Quicksilver? Everything he did, physical movement speed wise, I could replicate. He can multitask but that's not really a speed feat, especially since he has a personal force field around himself which allows him to not have to worry too much about being overwhelmed.
    You seem very intent on discrediting a guys best showing (arguably) despite having literally only 1 film to establish himself.

    Look at Catwoman tagging 3 Flash members at once. That's silly because she has an enormous number of showings and moments in her history that establish her as being too slow to do that. That makes sense. Ignoring the feats from a 1 movie character just feels downright off to me.

    Dark Pheonix has an identical feat. Want to toss out hers as well?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    You seem very intent on discrediting a guys best showing (arguably) despite having literally only 1 film to establish himself.

    Look at Catwoman tagging 3 Flash members at once. That's silly because she has an enormous number of showings and moments in her history that establish her as being too slow to do that. That makes sense. Ignoring the feats from a 1 movie character just feels downright off to me.

    Dark Pheonix has an identical feat. Want to toss out hers as well?
    Catwoman has consistent feats showing what her actual speed is (CBPH), not a one off against the Flashes. I'm not trying to discredit anything, but using a very vague speed feat when the rest of the movie has nothing to support it is illogical. If he had even one more vague feat or even a statement of his speed by someone that would be something. Nothing in the movie to me suggests he has legit super speed.

    So let me ask you. Do you think he actually has Quicksilver level reacting speed?

  8. #23
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    There's nothing contradicting the one showing in the one movie he was in really just like dark Phoenix showing it seems legit I don't see the big deal.

  9. #24
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Yea, why we over-hyping Ivan Ooze ?
    Much like jobberseid that joke got old really fast.

  10. #25
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Much like jobberseid that joke got old really fast.
    I'm legit just hoping that Ivan Ooze was the first Mutant, really.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  11. #26
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    I'm legit just hoping that Ivan Ooze was the first Mutant, really.
    That would be kinda cool in a power rangers X-Men cross over.

  12. #27
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    yeah. it's looking kind iffy to say he has that level of reaction speed.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallman View Post
    Apocalypse catching Quicksilver really didn't read as a reaction feat to me. I took it as Apocalypse taking a beating until he figured out where Peter was going to attack from, then setting a trap under there. It seemed kinda significant that he didn't just throw out a wall or punch as soon as Quicksilver started attacking.

    I think that you're also overstating his multi-tasking ability; he never does two complicated actions at once. He was either paying attention to the mental world or the physical world, and he was mostly just keeping his defense up and taking the occasional shot in either.
    It wasn't a trap at all, but an active attempt to grab at the guy's leg mid sprint. We also see his eyes darting back and forth despite being in slow time, meaning pieces of his physical body were literally moving at super sonic speeds. He made a pinpoint grab at those speeds. Whole sequence was over in tiny fractions of a single second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Catwoman has consistent feats showing what her actual speed is (CBPH), not a one off against the Flashes. I'm not trying to discredit anything, but using a very vague speed feat when the rest of the movie has nothing to support it is illogical. If he had even one more vague feat or even a statement of his speed by someone that would be something. Nothing in the movie to me suggests he has legit super speed.

    So let me ask you. Do you think he actually has Quicksilver level reacting speed?
    Yes I do. It is the reason I think he beats Strange.

    Ok! You now agree that Catwoman tagging Flash is nonsense because of the huge character history we can pull from to establish the feat as nonsense. We are now on the same page.

    Now eliminate the idea of Catwoman from your mind. She never existed. No decades of comics to pull from. Replace her with say.... "Feline Fiend" or something. Now FF is only ever printed in ONE comic. In that book she mostly operates at around what we think Batman does on panel. Except near the end of the comic, let's say a sniper blasts at her from behind. She manages to spin around, smile, and duck the bullet with ease.

    Do we say FF isn't a bullet timer on Rumbles? I mean, she neeeever moved that fast compared to Batman in the pages leading up to the end of the comic. It's a total outlier based on those previous pages!

    Spoiler alert: FF would be a bullet timer just fine. I dont see why Apoc is any different? He has 1 movie. Like 10 minutes (or less) of actual combat scenes in that movie. He does a thing - up to and including moving actual body parts - at a speed capable of catching QS.

    I really dont see the problem. If we toss this feat out, we then open the doors to toss out loads of Rumbles standards feats.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post


    yeah. it's looking kind iffy to say he has that level of reaction speed.
    Why? Despite the suprise nature of the unknown opponent showing up + the damage he was taking + the disorientation of being flung around, he STILL manages to defend himself. Given the whole scene is in slow time perspective, he does so at enormous speeds.

    Best you can say is that he isn't quite as fast as QS given he didnt stop him immediately.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    It wasn't a trap at all, but an active attempt to grab at the guy's leg mid sprint. We also see his eyes darting back and forth despite being in slow time, meaning pieces of his physical body were literally moving at super sonic speeds. He made a pinpoint grab at those speeds. Whole sequence was over in tiny fractions of a single second.



    Yes I do. It is the reason I think he beats Strange.

    Ok! You now agree that Catwoman tagging Flash is nonsense because of the huge character history we can pull from to establish the feat as nonsense. We are now on the same page.

    Now eliminate the idea of Catwoman from your mind. She never existed. No decades of comics to pull from. Replace her with say.... "Feline Fiend" or something. Now FF is only ever printed in ONE comic. In that book she mostly operates at around what we think Batman does on panel. Except near the end of the comic, let's say a sniper blasts at her from behind. She manages to spin around, smile, and duck the bullet with ease.

    Do we say FF isn't a bullet timer on Rumbles? I mean, she neeeever moved that fast compared to Batman in the pages leading up to the end of the comic. It's a total outlier based on those previous pages!

    Spoiler alert: FF would be a bullet timer just fine. I dont see why Apoc is any different? He has 1 movie. Like 10 minutes (or less) of actual combat scenes in that movie. He does a thing - up to and including moving actual body parts - at a speed capable of catching QS.

    I really dont see the problem. If we toss this feat out, we then open the doors to toss out loads of Rumbles standards feats.
    I don't see it like that at all.... but I don't think arguing about it is going to change neither of our minds.

    In any case, I do agree with you about the outcome of the rumbles; just for a different reason. I don't think Strange has any TP resistance feats.

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