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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    First off, I'm a Bat-fan, I think he's a great character. Seems like the solicits that I'm reading here and for DC have a few keywords: Gotham, Batman, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, etc. Even with other media it seems like he's front and center. Even Superman gets shoved a little bit and he was the pioneer for DC. In canon, they always have Bats outsmart Superman with his tech even though Supes can overpower him out of his mech suit, easily. Seems like with DC editorial they want to flood the market with more Bat books. Again, I love Batman, but the Justice League has other heroes that deserve good promotion and comics. It's called the Justice League not the Batman League. I'm not saying he should be cancelled but toned down a little bit. Marvel has the same problem with Wolverine and Spider-Man by comparison.
    Marvel used to have the same problem with Wolverine and Spider-man
    Now that the MCU has taken off they have begun to spread the wealth wholesale
    DC in comparison has not managed to hit gold with any franchise so far besides Harley Quinn and Batman

    Also welcome to 1998

  2. #17
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Marvel used to have the same problem with Wolverine and Spider-man
    Now that the MCU has taken off they have begun to spread the wealth wholesale
    DC in comparison has not managed to hit gold with any franchise so far besides Harley Quinn and Batman

    Also welcome to 1998
    Some of their properties have achieved cinematic success ala the MCU films, but that hasn't translated to much in the comics yet.

  3. #18
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    It's mind boggling to me, why Superman gets thrown under the bus for Batman. He's not a buffoon. He's an investigative reporter for the Daily Planet and is more than capable of handling things on his own. In other words he's as good a detective as Batman.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Since 1989, yes.
    Although, they did have a fascination with Lobo briefly and with Harley Quinn most recently.
    Yeah, obviously DC wants as much money as possible being the business that they are, so of course they'll value as much brands that bring back a lot of that. It seems to me that they looked most towards Superman in his first 50 years of existence, but after Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Tim Burton, Christopher Nolan, and many other such acclaimed contributions to the Batman brand, I've no doubt they've made Batman their biggest bread and butter since the late 1980s. His brand not only spawned his own book lasting into this year, but also Detective Comics, Harley Quinn, Dick Grayson as Nightwing, Batgirl, Batman Beyond, Catwoman, and so on and so forth.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Marvel used to have the same problem with Wolverine and Spider-man
    Now that the MCU has taken off they have begun to spread the wealth wholesale
    DC in comparison has not managed to hit gold with any franchise so far besides Harley Quinn and Batman

    Also welcome to 1998
    What about wonder woman and aquaman?shazam did pretty well.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Marvel used to have the same problem with Wolverine and Spider-man
    Now that the MCU has taken off they have begun to spread the wealth wholesale
    DC in comparison has not managed to hit gold with any franchise so far besides Harley Quinn and Batman

    Also welcome to 1998
    Used to have?

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Used to have?
    No kidding...


  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    No kidding...

    Well, atleast in universe spidey doesn't feel like spideygod most of the time

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I don't think its accurate to say that DC "only" cares about Batman. They obviously care about other IP's too, and put effort into other characters and books and projects. But Batman was their uncontested #2 for fifty years and in the late 80's hit a goldmine of market wins across media platforms just as Superman was stumbling, and Bats clawed his way up to the #1 spot and has stayed there, uncontested, for 30 years. DC made some great product that made a popular IP more popular, and have since done nothing more than invest in that success and provide a supply to meet the demand. That's just good business.

    But I do think it might be accurate to say that DC only "understands" Batman. They clearly do not have the firmest grip on many of their other big name characters and fail to understand the appeal of characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen (which is why so many write him like Wally these days). It's not that DC doesn't *care* about these characters, its that DC can't figure out why people love them. So they put the wrong creators on the characters, green-light the wrong stories, get frustrated when fans don't respond, and ultimately they just end up leaning on Batman; either literally bringing him into the project or trying to make other characters emulate him.

    I think you can actually look at Nightwing for proof of this (not "proof" proof, but it supports the argument). Of all the heroes to come from the Bat Cave, Dick Grayson is the most unusual. He's not like Bruce at all, really, or the other Bats. He doesn't work off the same troupes and themes, he's not dark, as a character he's built to be fun and bright. He's got far more in common with other heroes like Superman than he does Batman. And who's the Gotham vigilante DC can't figure out, no matter how hard they try? Who do they always seem to consider a noose around their necks? Dick Grayson (well, him and Cass, but she's a teenaged autistic Asian murder machine so no wonder those old white guys can't figure her out). Because deep down Nightwing is a Super, not a Bat, and DC doesn't really understand most things that aren't Bats.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-19-2019 at 07:54 PM.
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  10. #25
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Great post, Ascended

    DC and WB only understand Batman. They are too cynical to understand someone as bright and optimistic as Superman. At least Wonder Woman and Aquaman found directors who got them and their essences (on film).

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    I seem to be agreeing with him a lot of late, but Ascended pretty much concluded the thread. I will add, however, that DC isn't solely to blame here. They have to pay their bills and it does seem that no matter how hard they push other characters, if another Bat book enters the market, fans will flock to that instead of other properties. Jimmy Olsen, for example, is a hilarious book and a massive breath of fresh air at DC, as is pretty much the entire Wonder Comics line. The quality is wild, the sales mild. Ho hum.

    What it really comes down to is that they fear that if they publish too many Bat books, the others won't sell, but if they underpublish Bats, those dollars may go to Marvel, Image or so on. There's no guarantee that every dollar spent on Bat books would be a DC dollar otherwise. They've got their market data, and I don't begrudge them for doing what they must to keep the lights on, but I am absolutely tired of Batgod pervading those stories. I love a bronze age Batman, and when he's set up to make the Justice League, well, job for his existence then that's when the flood of Bat books gets to be too much.

    Nothing's wrong with relying on your money maker when you're in a struggling medium. Everything's wrong with letting it impact the work itself.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't think its accurate to say that DC "only" cares about Batman. They obviously care about other IP's too, and put effort into other characters and books and projects. But Batman was their uncontested #2 for fifty years and in the late 80's hit a goldmine of market wins across media platforms just as Superman was stumbling, and Bats clawed his way up to the #1 spot and has stayed there, uncontested, for 30 years. DC made some great product that made a popular IP more popular, and have since done nothing more than invest in that success and provide a supply to meet the demand. That's just good business.

    But I do think it might be accurate to say that DC only "understands" Batman. They clearly do not have the firmest grip on many of their other big name characters and fail to understand the appeal of characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen (which is why so many write him like Wally these days). It's not that DC doesn't *care* about these characters, its that DC can't figure out why people love them. So they put the wrong creators on the characters, green-light the wrong stories, get frustrated when fans don't respond, and ultimately they just end up leaning on Batman; either literally bringing him into the project or trying to make other characters emulate him.

    I think you can actually look at Nightwing for proof of this (not "proof" proof, but it supports the argument). Of all the heroes to come from the Bat Cave, Dick Grayson is the most unusual. He's not like Bruce at all, really, or the other Bats. He doesn't work off the same troupes and themes, he's not dark, as a character he's built to be fun and bright. He's got far more in common with other heroes like Superman than he does Batman. And who's the Gotham vigilante DC can't figure out, no matter how hard they try? Who do they always seem to consider a noose around their necks? Dick Grayson (well, him and Cass, but she's a teenaged autistic Asian murder machine so no wonder those old white guys can't figure her out). Because deep down Nightwing is a Super, not a Bat, and DC doesn't really understand most things that aren't Bats.
    Minor thing but Cass isn't a murder machine (her entire story is about not being that). Otherwise, I agree.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Minor thing but Cass isn't a murder machine (her entire story is about not being that). Otherwise, I agree.
    Well she was indeed constructed as one from birth. Perhaps a repurposed murder machine?

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But I do think it might be accurate to say that DC only "understands" Batman. They clearly do not have the firmest grip on many of their other big name characters and fail to understand the appeal of characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen (which is why so many write him like Wally these days). It's not that DC doesn't *care* about these characters, its that DC can't figure out why people love them. So they put the wrong creators on the characters, green-light the wrong stories, get frustrated when fans don't respond, and ultimately they just end up leaning on Batman; either literally bringing him into the project or trying to make other characters emulate him.
    I don't think they understand wally either, seeing as hic exists. For some wierd reasons they just want barry to act like wally. Then why did they decide to return barry allen. And the only reason i heard snyder writes barry as wally is because wally was his flash. The one he is familiar with.

  15. #30
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't think its accurate to say that DC "only" cares about Batman. They obviously care about other IP's too, and put effort into other characters and books and projects. But Batman was their uncontested #2 for fifty years and in the late 80's hit a goldmine of market wins across media platforms just as Superman was stumbling, and Bats clawed his way up to the #1 spot and has stayed there, uncontested, for 30 years. DC made some great product that made a popular IP more popular, and have since done nothing more than invest in that success and provide a supply to meet the demand. That's just good business.

    But I do think it might be accurate to say that DC only "understands" Batman. They clearly do not have the firmest grip on many of their other big name characters and fail to understand the appeal of characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen (which is why so many write him like Wally these days). It's not that DC doesn't *care* about these characters, its that DC can't figure out why people love them. So they put the wrong creators on the characters, green-light the wrong stories, get frustrated when fans don't respond, and ultimately they just end up leaning on Batman; either literally bringing him into the project or trying to make other characters emulate him.

    I think you can actually look at Nightwing for proof of this (not "proof" proof, but it supports the argument). Of all the heroes to come from the Bat Cave, Dick Grayson is the most unusual. He's not like Bruce at all, really, or the other Bats. He doesn't work off the same troupes and themes, he's not dark, as a character he's built to be fun and bright. He's got far more in common with other heroes like Superman than he does Batman. And who's the Gotham vigilante DC can't figure out, no matter how hard they try? Who do they always seem to consider a noose around their necks? Dick Grayson (well, him and Cass, but she's a teenaged autistic Asian murder machine so no wonder those old white guys can't figure her out). Because deep down Nightwing is a Super, not a Bat, and DC doesn't really understand most things that aren't Bats.
    I was with and going to say "There's different administrations and different writers who understand characters do different degrees" its been a long while but they seem to get batman "the most" and "the most consistently"

    I also think there's a bit of a problem with superman and his universal appeal... and How he seems to comic readers who aren't 30+... He's just not their hero.

    There's no more evolution to be had with this guy. He's Dad. He's dad and ... he's there to tell everyone that they're wrong, and that they need to be more like him.
    Or he'll spank you ... and believe me he can.

    He's not Saitama, nor Goku in appeal anymore and I often wrack my brain trying to figure that out but I boil it down to he's not that fun? Not sure. but d.c. has trouble bridging that gap.

    Meanwhile... this...

    Dick Grayson (well, him and Cass, but she's a teenaged autistic Asian murder machine so no wonder those old white guys can't figure her out).
    Thats... kinda uncool.

    MOVING ON!

    I don't agree about, Grayson... I think the batman beyond is cartoon was a good comparative example of how it could easily be a thing, but Nitewing the brand really isn't bright and shiny even if his personality is.

    Aside from that... to some undetermined large amount of people. . .

    Sidekicks live in the shadows of their mentors.... and they OWE as a metaphor (a percentage of all their proceeds to their mentor.)

    No matter WHAT Nitewing does... he's partially owned by batman and so his successes are batmans successes. Leading us to still say "DC only cares about batman"

    ---------

    That being said. . . I think D.C. really cared about Constantine and If Im completely honest they likely cared about every property that ALMOST
    broke through to be HUGE. Ryan Reynolds green lantern could have been deadpool "IF", but it wasn't.

    I'm suuuure they'd like to have more billion dollar franchise players.


    They DEFINITELY care ... but BATMAN keeps the lights on.

    Period. Even his spin offs keep the lights on.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 09-20-2019 at 04:23 AM.
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    Everything else is irrelevant.

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