Does DC only care about Batman?

**Vordan** · 09-24-2019, 01:05 PM

I can’t believe in the era where WW was the heart of the cinematic universe, Aquaman was the first billion dollar movie, and Shazam was one of the highest critically rated DC movies that people are still trying to sell me some bull that no one besides Batman is sellable. How the hell do you still say that in an era where Snyder’s Batman dominated DCEU flopped?

When GL flopped did people decide that GL was a crap IP, instead of the GL movie just being a bad movie ruined by studio incompetence and misunderstanding of the character? Was that the Internet response? Because that sounds really stupid to me.

Edit: I just went to check out what Dark Phoenix's sales and reviews look like and holy hell looks like the X-Men are a dead franchise guys. After all Fox has had some very talented directors try to make a good X-Men film but after Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix I guess no one cares about the X-Men anymore. The IP is just too hard to adapt, it’s not the fault of the people making the movies at all. Must be why the MCU isn’t bothering to announce an X-Men movie.

Oh and the FF have had crap movies so I guess it’s impossible for Feige to make a good movie about them either. Oh and Daredevil, remember his awful Affleck movie? Guess Daredevil is a worthless character after all he doesn’t have as many classic stories as Batman. Oh and Captain Marvel man, she’s never even had a good comic book run, guess a good movie with her is impossible. Too bad Black Panther doesn’t have as many classic stories as Batman, maybe if he did his movie wouldn’t have flopped.

Over in the WW forums they tell me that apparently WW hasn’t had as many classic stories as Batman, someone better go cancel WW1984, everyone knows it’s impossible to make a good movie unless you’ve got as many classic storylines as Batman.

I could go on but I hope you get my point. The IPs are not the problem. A good director paired with a strong script is all it takes.

**Green Goblin of Sector 2814** · 09-24-2019, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham

Batman is the most workable IP DC has. The rest of their brands - the main ones - don't even come close, save Superman. And again, even well-intentioned, talented filmmakers have tried, and failed, to make Superman work onscreen.

What? Then how do you explain Wonder Woman and Shazam being so critically acclaimed and Aquaman becoming the highest grossing DC film of all time, more than any Batman film. On top of that, we have several acclaimed DC TV shows out that are NOT Batman centric, from the Flash on CW to Titans, Swamp Thing, and Doom Patrol on the DC Universe streaming service and even Watchmen on HBO. I love Batman, but he is not the only workable IP DC has.

If Marvel studios had adopted that same attitude, we wouldn't even have the MCU. Remember how nobody except comic book fans even knew who Iron Man or the Avengers were before 2008? The only Marvel characters that had a heavy cultural presence before the MCU were Spider-Man, the X-Men, and the Fantastic Four. But, those properties' film rights had been sold off to Sony and Fox respectively. So, Marvel had to invest in their more "B"-list characters and it turned out to be a huuuuge success. The likes of Wonder Woman and Shazam and Aquaman have proven that WB can have the same thing with DC characters if they're willing to invest in characters outside of Batman.

It's just not an easy property to do right. Look at the last 50 years of comics - there are way more classic Batman comics than Superman comics - despite the same talent pool being involved in some cases. Ever read Dennis O'Neil's Superman? Woof.

Well A) that's debatable and B) if that logic applied, then Superman should be easier to adapt than the likes of Iron Man or Thor or Captain America. Superman has a hell of a lot more classic stories than those three. The problem lies not with Superman himself but with how they've chosen to adapt him. Instead of celebrating who he is, they've been trying to turn him into a dark, brooding character like Batman.

**Midnight_v** · 09-24-2019, 03:41 PM

I love Batman, but he is not the only workable IP DC has.

He said "most" workable.
Not only workable.

Instead of celebrating who he is, they've been trying to turn him into a dark, brooding character like Batman.

I'll bite. Who is he?

I mean do we need a Superman ala Guardians of the galaxy?

Seriously, I hear people say things similar to what you say....A LOT!

Yet, its easy to say such things but difficult to make a pitch because I don't think ... anyone has a good idea of how he should BE in a movie. They tried the Donnerverse Continuation thing with Brandon Roth... then the CGI beard.

Dude has too much gravitas... Make a damnned JLI movie so I can laugh at least.

**Dr. Ellingham** · 09-24-2019, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Vordan

Oh please. Flash has an extremely successful TV show but his movie has languished in development hell. GL has had some great animated movies and a cartoon series but his movie flopped because the people in charge were incompetent. Superman III and IV had their budgets repeatedly slashed but it was expected they would make MORE money than Superman II which is an idiotic assumption in and of itself.

Guardians of the Galaxy were all freaking dead in the comics before Gunn made his movie. His respect and love for the source material allowed him to succeed. The Avengers were freaking B and C-Listers before the MCU. The JL has had numerous successful adaptions in cartoons, yet youÂ’re trying to tell me its Â“too hardÂ” to make a good movie? ThatÂ’s bullshit, utter bullshit.

I'm not saying it's impossible to make a good Superman film. Richard Donner did it. It's just harder to get right than Batman. Batman is simply easier to do, and easier to sell. That's why it's DC's number one IP.

If WB could put Green Lantern or Flash in that same strata as Batman, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it would have happened 15-20 years ago. They might make successful films out of them, but as you point out - execution is critical to success for those IPs. Batman? Less so.

**Green Goblin of Sector 2814** · 09-24-2019, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Midnight_v

He said "most" workable.
Not only workable.

That's largely semantics, but Batman is definitely not the most workable of DC's IPs to the extent that it makes him the only property that DC should focus on or even the character that the DC cinematic universe should be built around. In other words, even if Batman is the easiest to adapt, it doesn't mean Batman should be literally the end-all-be-all of the DC Universe.

I'll bite. Who is he?

I mean do we need a Superman ala Guardians of the galaxy?

Seriously, I hear people say things similar to what you say....A LOT!

Yet, its easy to say such things but difficult to make a pitch because I don't think ... anyone has a good idea of how he should BE in a movie. They tried the Donnerverse Continuation thing with Brandon Roth... then the CGI beard.

Dude has too much gravitas... Make a damnned JLI movie so I can laugh at least.

Superman should be the person that the people of the DC Universe look to as a symbol of hope. He's the guy who is optimistic, believes in the inherent goodness of people, and is a champion of the oppressed. He's the guy who cares about you no matter what. No matter who you are or where you come from or what's in your past, Superman cares about you and believes there's goodness in your heart. Superman is the Tom Hanks of superheroes, basically.

**manwhohaseverything** · 09-24-2019, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Ellingham

I'm not saying it's impossible to make a good Superman film. Richard Donner did it. It's just harder to get right than Batman. Batman is simply easier to do, and easier to sell. That's why it's DC's number one IP.

If WB could put Green Lantern or Flash in that same strata as Batman, we wouldn't be having this conversation - it would have happened 15-20 years ago. They might make successful films out of them, but as you point out - execution is critical to success for those IPs. Batman? Less so.

The problem is that suits can't sell/build or market dc brand itself as whole.While, marvel did. They didn't put out a flash or green lantern. But they did put out a wonderwoman and Aquaman. Aquaman is the most successful property dc has in this decade. It is high time they change the popularity sells philosophy and building the brand as whole. This will gain peoples trust and which will make the properties marketable. If they gain trust they can sell a cow wearing cape and make money from it.

As for superman, I don't understand the argument that superman is hard to get. Freaking japanese manga guys get the "superman" archetype, then why can't American company that created the character ?The trouble with superman is. Both fans and some content creators have weird notions of the character,that ain't even reality. Many superman fans themselves don't know what the "original" superman is. They have no idea that passing motorcyclist found clark, not Jonathan and martha. Or that john and mary are Clark's adopted parents. They have no idea that clark is a strongman and refuse to acknowledge he is a vigilante. They can't see superman playing a litte rough. If fans themselves don't, We can't expect anything from the suits. There are guys in this very thread who say goldenage superman or morrison superman or superman of first 10-12 years isn't "real" superman. When, that is the real authentic superman. Siegel and shuster had specific ideas for the character. The character would have evolved. But saying that version ain't superman is stupid. It's not rocketscience. He is the simplest character to get right,in my opinion. Fleischer did it. He dumbed it down. But, that was one heck of a superman. Instead, now we have people claiming superman is a messianic figure who preaches moralistic platitudes or comparing him to gandhi. What kind of nonsense is that?

As far as i am concerned. This is the best superman adaptation period. I also love Disney's hercules.

**Green Goblin of Sector 2814** · 09-24-2019, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything

Instead, now we have people claiming superman is a messianic figure who preaches moralistic platitudes or comparing him to gandhi. What kind of nonsense is that?

It's nonsense to say that Superman should be a character who preaches peace before resorting to violence when that's exactly how he has been portrayed for decades??

**Rise** · 09-25-2019, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Vordan

I can’t believe in the era where WW was the heart of the cinematic universe, Aquaman was the first billion dollar movie, and Shazam was one of the highest critically rated DC movies that people are still trying to sell me some bull that no one besides Batman is sellable. How the hell do you still say that in an era where Snyder’s Batman dominated DCEU flopped?

When GL flopped did people decide that GL was a crap IP, instead of the GL movie just being a bad movie ruined by studio incompetence and misunderstanding of the character? Was that the Internet response? Because that sounds really stupid to me.

Edit: I just went to check out what Dark Phoenix's sales and reviews look like and holy hell looks like the X-Men are a dead franchise guys. After all Fox has had some very talented directors try to make a good X-Men film but after Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix I guess no one cares about the X-Men anymore. The IP is just too hard to adapt, it’s not the fault of the people making the movies at all. Must be why the MCU isn’t bothering to announce an X-Men movie.

Oh and the FF have had crap movies so I guess it’s impossible for Feige to make a good movie about them either. Oh and Daredevil, remember his awful Affleck movie? Guess Daredevil is a worthless character after all he doesn’t have as many classic stories as Batman. Oh and Captain Marvel man, she’s never even had a good comic book run, guess a good movie with her is impossible. Too bad Black Panther doesn’t have as many classic stories as Batman, maybe if he did his movie wouldn’t have flopped.

Over in the WW forums they tell me that apparently WW hasn’t had as many classic stories as Batman, someone better go cancel WW1984, everyone knows it’s impossible to make a good movie unless you’ve got as many classic storylines as Batman.

I could go on but I hope you get my point. The IPs are not the problem. A good director paired with a strong script is all it takes.

Aren't you taking this a bit personally?

No one declared that Batman is the only one fans care about, but he is obviously the one they care the most about. He is DC's most successful IP and this is a fact.

You keep bringing Marvel, but seem to forgot that neither Iron Man or Capatin America have their own big games despite having movies that made over 1B while Spider-Man does. 'Cause like Batman, he is Marvel's most successful IP and his games/comics will sell regardless if his movies do well or not.

**The True Detective** · 09-25-2019, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Rise

Aren't you taking this a bit personally?

No one declared that Batman is the only one fans care about, but he is obviously the one they care the most about. He is DC's most successful IP and this is a fact.

You keep bringing Marvel, but seem to forgot that neither Iron Man or Capatin America have their own big games despite having movies that made over 1B while Spider-Man does. 'Cause like Batman, he is Marvel's most successful IP and his games/comics will sell regardless if his movies do well or not.

Exactly, for as much as people wanna pat Marvel on the back for giving characters besides Spider-Man movies, it's not like all of them getting multimedia pushes like he does. Spider-Man is pretty much the only Marvel character who consistently gets not only solo films, but video games and solo cartoons. As popular as they are in movies Iron Man, Thor and Captain America don't exactly have a laundry list of solo, non movie, projects.

And even on the movie front let's not act like they would give the likes of Ant-Man and the Guardians of the Galaxy multiple films (or any at all) if they had the film rights for Spider-Man, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four from the start. It'd be nothing but Spider-Man, X-Men/Wolverine and Avengers movies if that was the case.

**manwhohaseverything** · 09-25-2019, 02:41 AM

Give it time. They are building their ip and making the house hold names. In a few years, there might be more games of ironman and cap than spidey. especially, after the son-disney nonesense.
As for the character fans most care about. Well, that's a variable. It can and has Changed with time as well. The charge against dc is their philosophy of depending on one thing rather than focusing on dc as a whole. They put writers who don't get ip's or are biased. For example, a batfanboy writer would write batman and bitches instead of justice league. justice league movie was basically superman and his weak companions. Dc never had a balanced approach. Now, they shove harley into everything and have her beat up everyone. It is sick that she is being pushed as female empowerment icon.

**The Darknight Detective** · 09-25-2019, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Zeeguy91

What? Then how do you explain Wonder Woman and Shazam being so critically acclaimed and Aquaman becoming the highest grossing DC film of all time, more than any Batman film.

Actually in real dollars, The Dark Knight still owns that record and then Batman follows it.

**The Darknight Detective** · 09-25-2019, 03:39 AM