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  1. #1396
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Huh?????? What gave you that assumption? Not only can the citizens freely leave whenever they want, but Xavier has never expressed that Krakoa stay out of other countries' problems or not remain connected to the world. Also, we’ve barely seen Krakoa and what we've gotten so far definitely contradicts that soooooo...what now?
    North Korea allows limited number of foreigners on their territory either as residents or tourists every year. Krakoa allows no one, period. That simple and that's their official policy stated by their ambassador to the UN.
    Again, they are not the only country to hold such a stance. But that's not the stance of someone trying to coexist is my point. No need to make it pass for that. They have other priorities like establishing themselves as something other than a fledging territory, so it's relatively understandable.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  2. #1397
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    The rules have changed. If human governments can use their resources to make military units and/or killer robots to hunt mutants, then mutants can slightly nudge a human government to slow down on hunting mutants. Not like she was wiped to be pro-mutant or crap herself publicly.

    Judging by her face, I think there's more to the persuasion than the White Queen just flipping a mental switch. Remember what Magneto said to her in HoX #1, after all.


    Also, this--enough in real life that they can call it out here in-fiction, just like North Korea.


    Bolsonaro is a psychopath, regardless of where he is on the political spectrum, but also lol at the Brazilian government "leaning toward the conservative side."

    See comments about the two countries above, and apply them to Bolsonaro and his regime.


    Agreed.


    Yeah. As nation-building goes, this is pretty mild.

    I don't know if I would call him a psychopath but surely if he were a character in the marvel universe he would surely look like William Stryker or some anti-mutant general.

    Countries will go to war over resources and political interests no matter how many lives it will cost such as what happened in Crimeia and Iraq. Compared to this, what the X-men are doing is far less violent.


    Besides, after things like this, I don't have much sympathy for humans in the marvel universe anymore:

    MG X-mens.jpg

  3. #1398
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Whovian View Post
    But they are not clones. They have had their thoughts and everything up to one week prior to dying imprinted into their new body. An actual clone doesn't have the thoughts of the original.
    They're still clones. I dont think having memories implanted in them makes them any less clones.

  4. #1399
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I am asking a very specific question here as it pertains to this specific story: So what is going to convince the humans to play their part this time? The only difference pointed out is getting all the tribes to unite, but that would seem to only make the humans-machines more worried.
    Common sense.

    They shouldn't have to be convinced to not want to murder their neighbors in the first place unless we all finally want to admit that the vast majority of the humans on the planet are no good, but ignoring that...

    As it stands humans have killed more humans and mutants on Earth than any mutant probably ever will. Focusing on their own problems seems like a good reason to play nice with the Mutants would could as of now irreparably damage their way of life. Add to that, that a United front of powerful mutants is the best defense that they'll ever have against any alien Invaders, demons, whatever. Not to mention the life saving drugs Charles is offering.

    There's a lot more to gain by leaving mutants alone than being the usual terrorist humans.

  5. #1400
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    Common sense.

    They shouldn't have to be convinced to not want to murder their neighbors in the first place unless we all finally want to admit that the vast majority of the humans on the planet are no good, but ignoring that...

    As it stands humans have killed more humans and mutants on Earth than any mutant probably ever will. Focusing on their own problems seems like a good reason to play nice with the Mutants would could as of now irreparably damage their way of life. Add to that, that a United front of powerful mutants is the best defense that they'll ever have against any alien Invaders, demons, whatever. Not to mention the life saving drugs Charles is offering.

    There's a lot more to gain by leaving mutants alone than being the usual terrorist humans.
    Several of Moira's lifetimes have proven this wrong, which is the point of showing those lifetimes.

  6. #1401
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And I can see that happening I'm not saying humans shouldn't be worried or afraid but what I am saying is we cant act like 17 million mutants weren't murdered in cold blood and not one country in the mu did anything. We also can't act like every country in the mu isn't experimenting on mutants for their own personal gain. Some would say the very idea of make America great again or America first is isolationism at its best. As of right now Xavier is saying make mutants great again, mutants first.
    Well, why are you saying they are trying to coexist then? Mutant first is not coexistence-friiendly. It's dominance-friendly. One people above the other.
    As for the US, their current set of policy is not something I want to get into, but let's say in my country they are poorly viewed in general.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  7. #1402
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Well, why are you saying they are trying to coexist then? Mutant first is not coexistence-friiendly. It's dominance-friendly. One people above the other.
    As for the US, their current set of policy is not something I want to get into, but let's say in my country they are poorly viewed in general.
    Because even though trump is saying america first and make america great again even though the people he is trying to make it great for always had it great. There has never been anyone in the marvel universe in a position of power that has said lets make mutants great again so they have to do it themselves. They are still coexisting. There are many black americans that say black business first, or shop black owned first, does that mean they aren't coexisting? They still shop at walmart and other big businesses but they are conscious of the socio economic disaparities that exist against them. Xavier isn't saying lets wipe all humans out he is saying we want our piece of this earth we were born onto and so we are are going to make it. They didn't steal land, they aren't hunting humans. They are coexisting in the same way the real world coexists. You don't try to f$($ with me i won't try to f#$($ with you. It just is what it is.

    co·ex·ist

    verb

    exist at the same time or in the same place.

    So what part of what they are doing is not coexistence. They are all living in the same time except humans are the ones in universe that don't want to coexist. They want mutants under their boot and it all for themselves. That is what marvel has established as canon time and time again and thats what writer after writer has established.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  8. #1403
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    I'm Brazilian. And I'm still puzzled at the amount of repercussion our new President's actions have (deservedly) been taking internationally.

    Even appearing on an X-Men comic? Wow. Remember when all the world thought about Brazil involved samba soccer and forest? Those were the days.

    But yeah, Bolsonaro is an anti-democratic extremist right-winger that preaches violence. He is more conservative and prone to violence than Trump, for example. And - besides making a political carreer on offending women, black and lgbt people - his government is taking a lot of actions against minorities.

    In real life, he would definitely be against mutants. And I'm sure he would hate Ororo the most.
    Kind of hoping to see Madame Frost, Ambassador of Krakoa, humiliating Mr. President of Brazil during a UN meeting

    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - Immortal Hulk - Runaways

  9. #1404
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    North Korea allows limited number of foreigners on their territory either as residents or tourists every year. Krakoa allows no one, period. That simple and that's their official policy stated by their ambassador to the UN.
    Again, they are not the only country to hold such a stance. But that's not the stance of someone trying to coexist is my point. No need to make it pass for that. They have other priorities like establishing themselves as something other than a fledging territory, so it's relatively understandable.
    I guess the question does indeed come down to is the dream alive right now? Humans are not allowed on Krakoa (unless escorted by a mutant) because humans exterminate mutants in every timeline lived by Moira so far. So to hopefully avoid getting massacred, they are not allowing humans in. Instead they're aiming for more diplomatic interactions and demanding to be recognized. This may be the way forward to co-existence.

    And as many others have said, we've only seen very little of what this new status quo will be. Hickman even said this issue is where we will get a *glimpse* of where we're going. A glimpse. This is nowhere near complete or settled.

  10. #1405
    New Mutant TOTALITY's Avatar
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    This is unrelated to the present discourse, but I was just noticing how visible the young, green girl from HOX #1 is in this issue's crowd shots. In one panel placing her hands on Goldballs, but then especially in the last panel of that scene, she seems to be the only member of the crowd colored in a way to stand out; everyone else is enveloped in a gauzy, golden lighting effect, but the green girl stands out as clearly as she looked in her first appearance.

    I know her name was also redacted in Hickman's printed script from the first issue, so it seems like she'll be significant in some way, but I'm starting to think it might be some kind of twist that makes you go "whoa! she was there all along!" Not sure what that would be. Moira in disguise? Haha. Maybe nothing!

  11. #1406
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    North Korea allows limited number of foreigners on their territory either as residents or tourists every year. Krakoa allows no one, period. That simple and that's their official policy stated by their ambassador to the UN.
    Again, they are not the only country to hold such a stance. But that's not the stance of someone trying to coexist is my point. No need to make it pass for that. They have other priorities like establishing themselves as something other than a fledging territory, so it's relatively understandable.
    That’s definitely not the only or even most important qualifier when it comes to determining whether or not a country is “isolationist.” Also, why are people saying Krakoa doesn’t allow humans? The only person that said that was Magneto who was scaring the ambassadors. Jean already told Fauna that humans can come on the island with a mutant present.

  12. #1407
    Incredible Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    That’s definitely not the only or even most important qualifier when it comes to determining whether or not a country is “isolationist.” Also, why are people saying Krakoa doesn’t allow humans? The only person that said that was Magneto who was scaring the ambassadors. Jean already told Fauna that humans can come on the island with a mutant present.
    Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone can describe a country that actively sought out international recognition and trade relationships as 'isolationist'. Attilan was isolationist. So far, Krakoa has created co-operative relationships with over 100 countries and saved millions of human lives in these countries. They're clearly trying to join the global community as a partner.

  13. #1408

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOTALITY View Post
    This is unrelated to the present discourse, but I was just noticing how visible the young, green girl from HOX #1 is in this issue's crowd shots. In one panel placing her hands on Goldballs, but then especially in the last panel of that scene, she seems to be the only member of the crowd colored in a way to stand out; everyone else is enveloped in a gauzy, golden lighting effect, but the green girl stands out as clearly as she looked in her first appearance.

    I know her name was also redacted in Hickman's printed script from the first issue, so it seems like she'll be significant in some way, but I'm starting to think it might be some kind of twist that makes you go "whoa! she was there all along!" Not sure what that would be. Moira in disguise? Haha. Maybe nothing!
    If come issue 13 of X men some little green chick comes out and everyone is all like Deus Ex Machina...remember you called this
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  14. #1409
    Astonishing Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    That’s definitely not the only or even most important qualifier when it comes to determining whether or not a country is “isolationist.” Also, why are people saying Krakoa doesn’t allow humans? The only person that said that was Magneto who was scaring the ambassadors. Jean already told Fauna that humans can come on the island with a mutant present.
    I wonder too though if Krakoa partially sustains itself from the power energy of Mutants living on it's soil. The more Mutants living on the island the less of a drain it is for everyone to sustain Krakoa's energies. Also, the Omega's have vast power levels that also help sustain Krakoa. Perhaps if humans visit for a prolonged period of time they start to feel incredibly drained because they don't have the built in biological energy that mutants have that produces mutant powers, so while living on Krakoa the humans would find their very life force draining.

    Krakoa kept Vulcan on the island for a long time, probably because it sustained the island better than any other mutant. Part of the problem was the lack of communication and lack of understanding. Obviously Apocalypse understood Krakoa in that time long ago when Apocalypse and the original Four Horseman sealed the breach to prevent the demons (or whatever they were) from taking over the planet.

    I find it actually kind of interesting to realize that Apocalypse was actually a super hero when he first rose up on the scene. I wonder if he got jaded by humanity over the centuries and felt that the "survival of the strongest" philosophy was the only direction.

    I love the fact that the solicits show Apocalypse as being actually really heroic and backing his teammates. Of all the villains to be 100% on board, it seems he is for now. Of course if the Krakoan's start kowtowing to the humans too much Apocalypse may decide the best course for him is to start an all out war to cull the chaff.

  15. #1410
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Well, why are you saying they are trying to coexist then? Mutant first is not coexistence-friiendly. It's dominance-friendly. One people above the other.
    As for the US, their current set of policy is not something I want to get into, but let's say in my country they are poorly viewed in general.
    Generally speaking, we should not be equating what the mutants are doing/establishing with Krakoa to Trump's MAGA/AF idiocy. The two ideologies are quite separate with different points of origin and intention.
    While mutants may become the dominant species (in numbers) in 20 years they are not necessarily advocating out-right physical dominance (in power) over humans...at least not at this very early stage.
    For all intents and purposes they just want the right to exist as a people without prejudice...too much to ask, but...it's worth the shot.

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