HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Silver Fang]

Oh no doubt it certainly did. Add me to the list of those who's stock was raised.

Too bad it raised the stock of her character & lowered others. FOX films sucked in general & Mystique's villain sue nature was one of the worst. She's my Marvel Spike (Buffy)

I was happy to see her killed in HOX 3. She was beyond due for some L's.

[Glio]

If Apocalypse is serious in his loyalty to Krakoa (and for now it seems), he is actually the best guarantee for the other villains

Annoy Wolverine, Xavier, even Magneto? Assumable. Annoy Apocalypse? No way. You don't want that guy to instill discipline in you.

[Veitha]

If Apocalypse is serious in his loyalty to Krakoa (and for now it seems), he is actually the best guarantee for the other villains

Annoy Wolverine, Xavier, even Magneto? Assumable. Annoy Apocalypse? No way. You don't want that guy to instill discipline in you.

They should make clear who's older (and scarier), Selene or Apoc. Because right now they are pushing the "first mutant" narrative upon Apoc (and I'd be fine with that retcon honestly).

One thing I lolled at during the villain scene was when Selene came out of the gate with the skull in her hand. It was a fun declaration of intent. She was like "Hi, it's your gurl Selene, and I'm still eating people as shown by this skull in my hands".

[loke13]

But the set up is pretty ominous, especially since the issue ends with Xavier making a deal with Apocalypse. That is how it ends.

I do agree with the ominous tone, that's intentional, the blanket pardon to all mutant villains/terrorist I'm sure raised more than a few eyebrows in the superhero community but in the context of the story where Xavier's dream failed, Magneto's dream failed, and Pocy's method failed this seems like a viable option to stave off extinction (and since Moira knows that Sinister betrayed them BIG TIME in her previous life I'm sure Xavier and Magneto have been keeping a close eye on him since they first approached him, also I find it funny that Moira wasn't there with them during this meeting.)

[loke13]

They should make clear who's older (and scarier), Selene or Apoc. Because right now they are pushing the "first mutant" narrative upon Apoc (and I'd be fine with that retcon honestly).

One thing I lolled at during the villain scene was when Selene came out of the gate with the skull in her hand. It was a fun declaration of intent. She was like "Hi, it's your gurl Selene, and I'm still eating people as shown by this skull in my hands".

I don't know much about Selene's character other than her being REALLY old and Enchantress bowing down to her not to mention she has a god complex but I think Hickman setting her up as an opposition to Apocalypse within the villain faction would actually work really well. Have they even interacted with each other before?

[BroHomo]

. Have they even interacted with each other before?

Once but Apoc was on Molly and couldn't perform

[Glio]

Except retcon, Selene is older and scarier than Apocalypse. She is 17,000 years old (Hyborian Age) and is a formidable sorceress. Apocalypse was born 5000 years ago (Ancient Egypt) and has access to Celestial technology. Apocalypse was the first mutant that was identified as such, that is his difference with Selene.

Just as Namor is sometimes called The First Mutant because he was the first to appear publicly in the modern era (and the first created by Marvel). Selene should be in principle of the most problematic mutants, yes.

But not only do we have Apocalypse. Exodus is probably also loyal to Krakoa and is the omega telekinetic. Xavier has quite a few mutants loyal to Krakoa that are terrifying and should be enough to intimidate some villains.

In addition, Xavier offers them immortality. It is a stick and a carrot quite powerful. That is, you can obey the laws of Krakoa and live in a paradise where you are immortal or you can rebel and that Exodus, Magneto and Apocalypse hunt you brutally. I am sure what I would choose.

Selene's biggest fear is getting old and dying. Xavier has offered her a way to avoid both.

[People Of The Earth]

I do think that's the issue, is it not?

Question: is granting a pardon to a known killer, cannibal, and rapist (Sabretooth) just because he is a Mutant really that great of an idea? Shouldn't they just, I don't know, judge him for his past crimes? Then again, maybe they will, maybe they won't. We shall have to wait and see.

The blanket amnesty of villains is a problem.

What kind of message that sends to the rest of the world? About the current moral state of the X-Men, about the kind of society they are setting up?
Sabertooth literally murdered those guards just for him to walk free of any consequence a couple days later, thanks to that new Kraked policy. It's a signal saying to the world how sapiens lives are not being valued 1:1 with mutant lives. That's another negative signal to send toward "coexistence" .

[Glio]

The blanket amnesty of villains is a problem.

What kind of message that sends to the rest of the world? About the current moral state of the X-Men, about the kind of society they are setting up?
Sabertooth literally murdered those guards just for him to walk free of any consequence a couple days later, thanks to that new Kraked policy. It's a signal saying to the world how sapiens lives are not being valued 1:1 with mutant lives. That's another negative signal to send toward "coexistence" .

We still don't know how Krakoa will punish Sabretooth.

[Stormultt Divine]

I think they granted the villains amnesty on Krakoa because a large number of them were more or less members of the Brotherhood or the Acolytes and they just wanted their own land for mutants at last.

There are very questionable mutants that were allowed on Krakoa but they will probably be watched carefully.

Some of you mentioned Selene being allowed to get away with mass murder again, I think if she gets caught murdering innocents she will be executed or permanently imprisoned.

Sinister, I guarantee that Xavier and Magneto don't trust him, but better to have him on Krakoa where they can keep an eye on him rather than out in the world where he can cause trouble.

People are underestimating that a lot of governments may welcome Krakoa taking these mutant criminals that were hard to contain and imprison. It costs money to keep a super power being in prison and now Krakoa is offering to take them off your hands and allowing you to deport the bad and good mutants to Krakoa. Why not, hopefully the mutants will just kill each other and solve everyone's problem. I bet that's what the human governments are thinking, let them have their mutant criminals so we don't have to deal with them anymore.

Lol, what I am going to say next is going to make people think that Xavier and Magneto are true villains, Selene, Sinister, Emplate, et all are superweapons that can be unleashed when the time is right. When the humans make a big move against Krakoa then Xavier and Magneto can go to Selene and say "Hey Selene, babe, do you want to go to the United States and eat the souls of all the government officials for us."

So yeah, I think some of the villains are actually quite fine to let in, but I expect Xavier and Magneto know exactly how dangerous some of those mutants are and are intending to keep them as a nuclear option in case Krakoa is attacked by the human governments.

What the mutants are transitioning into is a "People" with a country, a culture, and a desire to protect their hard won peace at all costs. They are no longer just people in spandex trying their best to save people, they are a nation of people who trying to preserve their culture and way of life, their children, and their children's children. They are a nation!

LONG LIVE KRAKOA!

Come on!!!
Krakoa Forever!!

[People Of The Earth]

We still don't know how Krakoa will punish Sabretooth.

Sabertooth was on a mission for Xavier, I don't think he'll rot in jail on Krakoa - if they are such a thing - for killing people on said mission. Despite said people actually be innocents just doing their jobs, and not AIM soldiers like the ones Wolverine or Penance killed on that space station.

Mystique is a killer & rapist & Wolverine sleeps with her. She's the ultimate Villain Sue who's never given a comeuppance for her crimes. Meanwhile Creed gets his ass beast easily by everyone. He's not a threat to any mutant on Krakoa. lol Just one of Mystique's lackies. Again, fans are putting more thought into Creed than Hickman is. I think people need to just chill on it. He's not much of a problem.

We didn't see him anywhere among the other mutants in this issue.

• It may be like X-Factor where he stays confined until they're desperate enough to need him.
• They may cut his head off & leave him dead for a while as punishment. lol Hell getting decapitated is a running gag for him nowadays.
• He may be in prison.
• Wolverine may have dealt with him.
• etc.

Lets wait & see. If his 16-year track record is anything to go on, he's not the least bit important. He won't be a character that turns any tides. He's a casual villain of the week like 9/10 of the Rogue Gallery. It's easy to deal with him. That may be why he's there. He can be kept in line easier by them than humans.

No. The "we can handle them if things go south" is not a valid excuse to not hold criminals of this caliber accountable for their past actions.
There aren't just petty thieves in that crowd of villains who just walked in Krakoa. There are people with the blood of thousands of individuals on their hands. Literally. Some of them killing not just by ideology but out of fun or a misguided sense of racial superiority.
It's not much of a problem only if we ignore the moral implication of pardoning some of these mutant villains.

[Glio]

Sabertooth was on a mission for Xavier, I don't think he'll rot in jail on Krakoa - if they are such a thing - for killing people on said mission. Despite said people actually be innocents just doing their jobs, and not AIM soldiers like the ones Wolverine or Penance killed on that space station.



No. The "we can handle them if things go south" is not a valid excuse to not hold criminals of this caliber accountable for their past actions.
There aren't just petty thieves in that crowd of villains who just walked in Krakoa. There are people with the blood of thousands of individuals on their hands. Literally. Some of them killing not just by ideology but out of fun or a misguided sense of racial superiority.
It's not much of a problem only if we ignore the moral implication of pardoning some of these mutant villains.

Sabretooth was on a Xavier mission but killed unnecessarily. If they function as an army, the procedure will be to make a military trial.

[Veitha]

Except retcon, Selene is older and scarier than Apocalypse. She is 17,000 years old (Hyborian Age) and is a formidable sorceress. Apocalypse was born 5000 years ago (Ancient Egypt) and has access to Celestial technology. Apocalypse was the first mutant that was identified as such, that is his difference with Selene.

Just as Namor is sometimes called The First Mutant because he was the first to appear publicly in the modern era (and the first created by Marvel). Selene should be in principle of the most problematic mutants, yes.

But not only do we have Apocalypse. Exodus is probably also loyal to Krakoa and is the omega telekinetic. Xavier has quite a few mutants loyal to Krakoa that are terrifying and should be enough to intimidate some villains.

In addition, Xavier offers them immortality. It is a stick and a carrot quite powerful. That is, you can obey the laws of Krakoa and live in a paradise where you are immortal or you can rebel and that Exodus, Magneto and Apocalypse hunt you brutally. I am sure what I would choose.

Selene's biggest fear is getting old and dying. Xavier has offered her a way to avoid both.

Well, yeah they have enough people to contain Selene. If Magik is on the Island they have sorcery covered too (dunno if Illyana could take on her tho).

Problem with her is the scheming more than the actual firepower. Selene did try to sacrifice an Island of mutant souls to become a goddess. I can see her trying to slowly start make things move in that direction without the others noticing. And she's currently got Russian affiliations (nation hostile to Krakoa). Plus just offering immortality is not enough imo.

But honestly this only makes it more interesting for me. They have a possible big villain on Krakoa that could start an interesting arc later on.

[Veitha]

I don't know much about Selene's character other than her being REALLY old and Enchantress bowing down to her not to mention she has a god complex but I think Hickman setting her up as an opposition to Apocalypse within the villain faction would actually work really well. Have they even interacted with each other before?

Enchantress was written a bit badly in that run. No way she would have bowed and no way Monet could have defeated her. But Selene is 17000 years old, and I'm not really sure how old Amora is (Odin was a bit younger during prehistoric age and was using Mjolnir so I don't know if Selene could be older than Amora)

[Glio]

Yes, without a doubt Selene is a problem waiting to happen. But I can understand that Xavier will see the potential in the remote possibility that she behaves well. And if she doesn't, it is better to have her in Krakoa than outside.