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  1. #1231
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartofTheStoriesWeTell View Post
    Also related...do they remember dying... i mean i know as comix readers we are blase...but think about scott remembering getting shot, or mystique remembering the vacuum...or god, poor jean.
    I think they remember that's why it was important for Jean to maintain the connection the whole time and why Beast said they were on a 8 second relay behind them.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  2. #1232
    Incredible Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartofTheStoriesWeTell View Post
    Also related...do they remember dying... i mean i know as comix readers we are blase...but think about scott remembering getting shot, or mystique remembering the vacuum...or god, poor jean.
    These latest ones might because they were connected to Cerebro, but wouldn't it be limited to the last Cerebro update? Most Mutant deaths are pretty gruesome and violent.

    Hopefully Chuck isn't the one who also helps them with their PTSD/issues. I've heard he kind of sucked at it over in another book.

  3. #1233
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    So are we not pretending the white male isn't dangerous when we don't prejudge them and say we need some sort of robot or program that can detect when a white male is going to do another mass shooting. You know for protection. I mean i get what your saying i think but it's no different than actual society and what happens when bad people do bad things. Anything can be made into a weapon if a person wants to do harm.
    People are not born with guns as limbs in our world. That isn't the case with mutants and their powers. That's precisely why drawing analogies IRL with the mutants plea doesn't hold under scrutiny because, at its core, superhumans present unique challenges that have no equivalent IRL.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  4. #1234

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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    These latest ones might because they were connected to Cerebro, but wouldn't it be limited to the last Cerebro update? Most Mutant deaths are pretty gruesome and violent.

    Hopefully Chuck isn't the one who also helps them with their PTSD/issues. I've heard he kind of sucked at it over in another book.
    I know if i were them i would want the save point from 1 min pre death thank you...
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  5. #1235
    Spectacular Member starduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    People are not born with guns as limbs in our world. That isn't the case with mutants and their powers. That's precisely why drawing analogies IRL with the mutants plea doesn't hold under scrutiny because, at its core, superhumans present unique challenges that have no equivalent IRL.
    I think it still doesn't excuse genocide bots.

  6. #1236
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    I am not really liking the big revelation. Because to say it's the same person over and over again until they have been cloned over and over again does not seem ok to me. Countless xmen fodder.

  7. #1237
    Mighty Member ohsnapulon5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    They thought the ceremony would be tackier if they allowed her to sing breathe into life by evamescence during the neked ceremony
    they passed 'tacky' a long time ago when they sent Mystique into space...

  8. #1238
    Spectacular Member ComeOnBunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    I guess its just me... maybe a few others...

    but this issue and just this issue (not the entire narrative that hickman is weaving)


    Its poison.

    This issue for all its awesome appearances and some of the coolest uses of powers since... hell just SINCE!

    Its the story about the subjugation of the X-mens ideology, and the adoration of 1/2 everything they've stood against for all these years... the other half being staving off endless
    and needless editorial driven extinction plots.

    Metaphorically its offensive, and maybe a bit "disgusting" if I'm honest.

    So... the dream of MLK was wrong, the dream of the every Separatist Fredrick Douglas to Richard Spencer was right.

    If that statement starts to build rage or contempt in you after a couple of moments consideration, then for quick second realize its good be alarmed.
    A feeling of outrage at your favorite heroes and their franchise being compared to the worst of the modern facists means youre still saying sane.

    See I love the X-men, always have... the struggle to do what right even when the odds were against them is what made them heroes.

    And I never understood why soooo many people would come and bitch about the characterization of the Illuminati in time runs out. I get it now though.

    Hickman is a genius. Powerful writing. Elicits powerful emotions.

    I didn't like seeing it.
    I didn't like seeing storm give a speech with all of mutantdom responding "SIEG HEIL!" (MUTANT!!!) but I could hear it NOT in Reverend Ororo T. Jakes speech but in that full old german shout back.

    I didn't like the thing that unites mutantkind being

    "I know lets just give our mutant villians everything they want!"

    Magneto "Separatist Supremacist Nation"
    En Sabah Nur - Mutants United for Dominance of Earth
    Sinister - All the genetic engrams of all the mutants to "play with" ...

    and yeah... there's mad men and cult leaders, cannibals, and vamipres... but hey we're all the same RACE!

    Not like those filthy human* cockroaches outside. *but you can insert any people who were stepped on after a vengeful regime took power.

    So as of right now this story... is about the Unified Fascist Mutant State. See... historically most fascism start with the justification "We are the injured party! So whatever we do from here is just come uppance"
    Followed by "HERE IS THE SUPERIORITY OF OUR CULTURE!"
    and then... the conflicts start... but you can tell by magnetos previous speeches he's still the same old tyrant thinking of mutants as "...their new Gods"

    and yeah. . . I get it...

    The Xmen needed a WIN... BADLY.

    But ideologically, and dare I say... Heroically...

    This is probbably the worst defeat I've EVER seen Xaviers dream suffer.*


    ... and I owned THIS book pretty early on
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/What_If%3F_Vol_2_13

    Well... at least wakanda is unconquered.

    (X)
    Looking at Julian Keller who is probably only about 17 years old and already survived 3 Mutant genocides I can see how they have had enough. Historically speaking justice has killed more people than crime has so to me right and wrong are just words that have little meaning. Instead of judging whether their actions are right or wrong I look at why they are doing what they are doing that way even if I disagree I can at least understand.

  9. #1239
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    So is Goldballs technically the father of every mutant born from Krakoa?
    Technically he is their mother.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  10. #1240
    The Son of Suns Clairaudient Freedom Soldier's Avatar
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    Looking forward to the Wave 2 book, Mimic and the Resurrection 5, by Al Ewing and Nick Bradshaw. Restoring Mutantkind 1,000 mutants per week.
    Last edited by Clairaudient Freedom Soldier; 09-19-2019 at 02:56 PM.
    Top Artists Acuña, A Adams, Allred, Asrar, Bradshaw, V Bridges, J Campbell, JS Campbell, Caselli, Charest, C Chiang, Coipel, TS Daniel, Darrow, A Davis, Derington, Dodson, G Frank, Googe, G Ha, T Harris, Hawthorne, C Henry, A Hughes, Immonen, Larraz, Lupacchino, Maguire, Manapul, P Medina, McGuinness, McKone, J Molina, D Mora, SG Murphy, Opeña, B Peterson, Pichelli, I Reis, A Robinson, Rude, Shaner, K Shannon, RB Silva, Skroce, Sook, Sprouse, Torque, D Williams, Woods!

  11. #1241
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    Interesting to note in Soule's astonishing x-men when xavier comes back from the astral plane that is when proteus is revived to which Xavier said Shadow King must have had shards of proteus in him which weakened the barrier between the astral plane and the real world. Also this is the first time we see xavier use his powers in connection with someone else when him and psylocke connect and it looks like they call on the power of a group of mutants to attack shadow king. so some stuff in that run to can applied in HOX. Also ends with Xavier saying he has a new dream so i would say he left to pick up the karoka thing after that run.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #1242
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Technically he is their mother.
    He is male, so he would be a father

  13. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    He is male, so he would be a father
    Does he get moody when he drops his eggs?
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  14. #1244
    Spectacular Member starduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    He is male, so he would be a father
    But he created the eggs that then were fertilized by Hope & co so he's the mother

  15. #1245
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    There’s absolutely a discomfort to this. Everything the mutants are doing is predicated on the knowledge of what will happen if they just keep trying the same things again, and on that level it is reasonable. However, this puts us in the same philosophical ballpark as the grand narratives of Asimov’s Foundation, Herbert’s Dune, or the early 20th Century philosophers, phrenologists and anthropologists who unwittingly helped steer humanity toward the depredations of the Holocaust by losing sight of the human. Dune’s “Golden Path” in particular places its characters in a straitjacket that they must strive to escape, and we are promised that this struggle will lead to their emergence from the chrysalis as a viable species that may survive the future.

    In House Of X, we are told that the mutants must give up the human to survive. This may mean giving up family ties to an extent (and are not most mutant parents human?), giving up human attitudes on public nudity, adopting a new language, and new rituals. This may seem like a cult, but actually they’re more like Magneto’s tribe that settled the land and said “this place is good”. I think this really is a viable society, and I’m sure we’ll see more of that as DoX progresses. We have to examine ourselves at this point and wonder whether our discomfort at the rebirth ritual is really because of modern fears of Jonestown-like scenarios, or because the mutants are genuinely beginning to become an alien society to us; the tribe across the river that worship different gods from us.
    You will not be surprised I totally agree with this, given that I was also getting Dune / Golden Path vibes early on. Arguing about the reasons that we are in this position, which so much of this thread contains, is beside the point. This is a new terrifying world just as the Golden Path was a terrifying world. This is an autocratic society, just as Leto II was autocratic. The fact that it is “necessary” and “justified” is the entire point.

    We are being gently taken by the hand and led through a pretty garden to the machine just past the wall that is fascism. This isn’t pledging to a flag, (although even that feels unsettling to those of us that are not brought up that way) this is ritual identification of ‘us and other’ not just ‘us’.

    This is also religious in its use of rebirth. The nakedness is very deliberate. The adoration of the miracle workers is equally tapping into superstition and stardom. God Emperor Xavier.

    In many ways this is a knowing, post-modern dictatorship. Xavier isn’t lying to the people, and I don't think he is mind controlling them, but he is still manipulating them, even as they embrace that manipulation knowingly.

    Xavier isn’t obviously evil, and has a purpose that we can identify with, based on a journey we have walked with him, but that doesn’t make this right. But, even if it’s wholly wrong, it may still be necessary. Either way it is other. They have defined themselves by not being us. We can’t fully root for Xavier, and perhaps none of them. This is beyond the mutant metaphor.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-19-2019 at 03:27 PM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

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