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  1. #556
    Fantastic Member JamJams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    .
    My conversation is about about this issue of the Xmen.

    In this issue of the X-Men...
    It was tough.

    I really don't want the X-Men to be the book about a nation of Self righteous fascists, Chalking up everything they do to vindication...

    I wanna read about the Xmen winning by being the world's greatest heroes.

    People loving Sunspot, Illyana Rasputin, and Madrox... the same way they do Superman, Wonder woman, and Batman.
    It's fine that this version of the X-Men isn't 'your' X-men. But I just want to point out that the X-Men were never supposed to be the world's greatest superheroes. That's the Avengers.
    And for a long time in the 80s/90s because they were the popular team they became the Avengers YET at the same time they tried to continue to push their original mandate which was "To protect mutants in a world that fears and hates them". It's not protect humanity, it's protect MUTANTS. But when you're the most popular superhero team for two decades you get Avengers stories mixed in with your X-Men stories.

    What Hickman is writing is an X-Men story, they are protecting their own. But they are not being extremists in this case. When Cyclops formed Utopia, that was an extremist ideology because he wanted mutants to be isolated and created an extermination team of the most powerful mutants as a deterrent to any invaders. Xavier is simply seeking to make a sovereign nation and has even given the other countries gifts to show that he wants cooperation with them. If they live in a world where co-existence is really achievable then humanity would accept those gifts, leave mutants alone and eventually mutants would open their borders to anyone. However the world they live in humans already tried to build a Mother Mold to wipe them out. And DESPITE that happening the X-Men sacrificed a full team to just kill the robot. The majority of the staff (sans whatever guards they sent after M and Wolverine) are still alive after that raid.

    So are they the world's greatest heroes? No.
    Are they protecting mutants from a world that fears and hates them? Absolutely.
    Comics: House of X, Powers of X

  2. #557
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrancejameson View Post
    You're not the only one to pickup on this. Xavier's dream is dead. Peaceful existence with the humans is NO LONGER on the table.
    The UN voted for their existence as a nation. Did they have to flex their muscles a bit to get it? Sure. Are they offering powerful mutant/Krakoa pharmaceuticals in exchange? Yes. Peaceful existence with humans is NOT off the table. Take a deep breath, you'll be OK. :-)

  3. #558
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whist View Post
    Attachment 87233

    So, at the start of the book, if this a shot of Scott’s team being reincarnated, who’s the guy to the left of him in that picture?
    Not Warren, no wings. Not Logan and clearly not Kurt.

    Enquiring minds want to know.
    Mystique...?

    (someone beat me to it lol)

  4. #559
    Spectacular Member Proto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    So you really think all those heroes simply just don't care at all?

    There are tons of times where major things happen and heroes from other teams aren't there, are we to assume it's because they don't care?
    The characters in universe have told us they don't care and haven't done anything. I mean Carol showed up like a day after the bus explosion as if nothing had happened, asking if the X-men would register during Civil War and Emma rightfully called her and the Avengers out. Same for her grilling Iron Man. We have in-universe confirmation that other heroes just don't help mutants. Captain America says just as much when he formed Uncanny Avengers.

  5. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    Well... While I doubt any of us were old enough to know what it was like before.. I gotta say hell yes it was Successful.
    So successful in fact that we take it all for granted.

    And that white supremacists get punched in the streets
    So according to you the civil rights movement was a success? Rights for black Americans have never been more clearly defined, huh? Collectively speaking, black Americans have been in a much better place prior to the civil rights movement kicking into gear? This is an interesting take. I look forward to this exchange of ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leirus View Post
    Yeah, the dream is dead. We have seen it die in several of Moiras lives. And in the last issues of Rosenberg Uncanny. But the X-men have never been a direct metaphore. Now they can be an allegory of the minorities in the real world, who have stoped seeking tolerance and just want the space they deserve. "We never had a chance".
    Babbbbbyyyyyyy... If you don't say it louder for the liberals in the back...
    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    If Xavier's dreams have to die for the mutants to live then I'm all for it. Remember that MLK went on record saying that he regretted his push for integration.
    Baaaaaaaabbbbbbyyyy, if you don't SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES IN THE BACK WHO ARE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN...
    Quote Originally Posted by Omnihallows View Post
    but if they can't learn to coexist, then how will they do it with the other species in the universe? they cannot judge an entire species by the acts of a few, that seems hypocritical, illogical and primitive
    http://https://youtu.be/_PLYNajI7pw

  6. #561
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    I wonder if Mr Immortal can be incorporated into this Ressurection process

  7. #562
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Yep. Though Hickman seems to be going with the view that "personality + memories = soul" so, while the clones aren't technically the originals, they are truly identical copies with identical souls. So, they'll think, feel, and act exactly as the originals would have.
    I feel like... dont we have a mutant that can capture and store souls?
    Also... I feel like kurt might not be okay with this being faith based and all... but maybe... maybe he chalked it to Gods will and considered it no more.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  8. #563
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    So you really think all those heroes simply just don't care at all?

    There are tons of times where major things happen and heroes from other teams aren't there, are we to assume it's because they don't care?
    They’re like all the people who think it’s such a shame that all those afghani wedding guests died in a drone strike but continue to vote for the people who drop the bombs.

  9. #564
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Mystique...?

    (someone beat me to it lol)
    Maybe she shifted into her father which would say a lot.

  10. #565
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    I feel like... dont we have a mutant that can capture and store souls?
    Also... I feel like kurt might not be okay with this being faith based and all... but maybe... maybe he chalked it to Gods will and considered it no more.
    Selene can and so can Armour and can't that girl from Excalibur who lives in Genosha. Wicked is her name
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 09-18-2019 at 12:14 PM.

  11. #566
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Aren't the "Five" basically just creating clones? I mean no matter how you slice it the one's they resurrect still died their souls are gone even if you replicate their brains..

    Also this issue really just solidifies that Jean is subpar without the cosmic fire Chicken.
    Jean as an omega level telepath could definitely put her actual soul and mind into the new body. She's done it several times already with Phoenix and Maddie and even jumping into Emma's body. Heck, Jean helped put Xavier and Emma back into their own bodies before (in New X-Men). Jean didn't use any Phoenix power to transfer her consciousness and tk into Emma's body in Uncanny 281-283.

    Don't know about the others tho.

  12. #567
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    One thing that is swirling in my mind. And 38? pages in I dont know if its been answered yet by any of you intellectually stimulating individuals.

    But humans are not stupid. They know mutants have some of the most powerful telepaths on the planet.

    Would they have not taken precautions against this? Telepathic shielding? I'm sure they having other ways of dealing with being influenced or mind-controlled.

    Can I get some of your perspectives on this?

  13. #568
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    One thing that is swirling in my mind. And 38? pages in I dont know if its been answered yet by any of you intellectually stimulating individuals.

    But humans ARE not stupid. They know mutants have some of the most powerful telepaths on the planet.

    Would they have not taken precautions against this? Telepathic shielding? I'm sure they having other ways of dealing with being influenced or mind-controlled.

    Can I get some of your perspectives on this?
    Callaghans psi blocking tech was useless against Emma. And the Cuckoos made short work of the defences of the security council

    So was Starks ONE sentinels

  14. #569
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Five seems to be a repeating number in X-men mythos. I wonder if Hickman is intentionally playing with this detail.

    05, Phoenix 5, The Five, the Lights, Force Warriors. If you stretch it even the major players in HoX are five; Xavier, Magneto, Mr Sinister, Apocalpyse, Moira.

  15. #570
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    Maybe she shifted into her father which would say a lot.
    Or this is a very "who will notice?" way of saying Mystique was born in a male body but was really a female and her powers allowed her to be that, to the point where her natural state is always to appear as a female.

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