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  1. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Changing the subject I am amazed how anyone is still surprised by the X-men and Xavier crossing the line (for heroes) it's as if they don't even realize that they are desperate after Moira showed the truth anyone would do the same.

    Besides, I don't know any great nation or country that doesn't do exactly what they do or worst.
    For me, it is not that the situation is not understandable but I compare it to Man of Steel. A lot of people had problems with that movie with the big one being Superman killing someone. While I fully believe and would argue that Superman would kill under that exact situation as the only action left, the real argument, and what is probably really behind people's complaints, is that Superman is not just a name and some powers, it is an idea, and part of that idea is a hero who would not kill. People have expectations about characters and stories about those characters. So it is not surprising that Xavier is crossing the line, it is surprising if Xavier and the X-Men are and that this is what Marvel is actually going to go forward with as "this is what X-Men is."

    No matter what great (or otherwise) country you want to compare it to, for myself, that is not why I read X-Men. And if I am now putting myself in that scenario, which seems to be either mutants or humans will be extinct by some means, I don't think I am in the minority of recognizing I am not a mutant lol.

  2. #1367

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    What is this? Mutant apologist week? There is nothing OK about swinging a UN vote using mind control or manipulation.
    Emma should have put uranium in that UN member's food.

  3. #1368
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    After many re-readings...I'm still quite exhilarated by this issue.
    I'm fully enjoying the pride and hopeful delight of this Mutant Resurrection knowing fully well that it might be a tad premature and may not even survive beyond the birthing...(we have just three issues left).
    Until then, though...(and even after, if I'm being honest)
    Gloria in Excelsis HiX-Man!

  4. #1369
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    I have little problem with what the Mutants are doing. They're doing what they have to do to survive and thrive. Anything otherwise would likely lead to another extinction event. Perhaps Krakoa is a long term plan to eventually co-exist.
    Excellent point.
    People here are crying "off with their heads!" as if Mutant Nation Krakoa has been in existence for decades already.
    This is just the hopeful early beginnings of an attempt at co-existence. So all the "philosophical projection" is just noise.
    Thing is, we know shyt is going to hit and things will change even before they get a real chance to prove the nay-sayers wrong.

  5. #1370

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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    For me, it is not that the situation is not understandable but I compare it to Man of Steel. A lot of people had problems with that movie with the big one being Superman killing someone. While I fully believe and would argue that Superman would kill under that exact situation as the only action left, the real argument, and what is probably really behind people's complaints, is that Superman is not just a name and some powers, it is an idea, and part of that idea is a hero who would not kill. People have expectations about characters and stories about those characters. So it is not surprising that Xavier is crossing the line, it is surprising if Xavier and the X-Men are and that this is what Marvel is actually going to go forward with as "this is what X-Men is."

    No matter what great (or otherwise) country you want to compare it to, for myself, that is not why I read X-Men. And if I am now putting myself in that scenario, which seems to be either mutants or humans will be extinct by some means, I don't think I am in the minority of recognizing I am not a mutant lol.
    Understandable. I may not be a mutant but people in this world.try to treat my people like they are so I can understand the different view points.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  6. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The more I think of this cloning thing, I dont like it and find it hard to buy them as the originals. I really hope there is a twist in the next red issue which reveals that the X-men are actually in pods. Cerebro being used to transfer memories into an empty husk, doesnt make these clones the originals. If Xavier were to transfer Jean's memories into a Wolverine husk, would that now be Jean?I dont accept that.



    a mother is a female parent and Goldballs is and identifies as male, so he is father, regardless of eggs.
    Tbh that's a pretty narrow and binary view for what the The Five just pulled off. There really isn't a gendered term for what the hell Goldballs and Proteus did here.

  7. #1372
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Since we really haven't gotten any other X-Men views on Krakoa I'm going to hold on till the DoX series come out to give us a little more insight.

    We've only really gotten Xavier/Magneto's views on this.

    Magneto has always been pro mutants having their own nation.

    And Xavier who has become more shady throughout the years. Is acting like this because of all the timelines that Moira showed him.

    I don't have a problem with the mutants having their nation and not allowing their fellow human sapiens. We DON'T know exactly how strict that policy is going to be yet.

    But we have been given so far in every timeline is that humans will always hate and try to find a way to get rid of mutants.

    The in comic universe gave no f**** when 16 million mutants were murdered by Sentinels that were created by man.

    So the mutants having another chance at a society, culture, and existence in their own safe space is not wrong in my eyes.

    Since Krakoa and the island nation is so NEW and still in transition. I'm fine with in universe mutants not allowing humans on island.

    I think another thing we may be forgetting is that mutants may want this. We have mutants that call humans norms or flatscans or etc.

    So it will be interesting to see how the writers navigate this mutant only island.

    Like maybe certain parts of the island are more human friendly when it comes to that.

    I know when we travel we have to be wary of countries and what areas are tourist friendly.

    It's just a thing. And I think it can apply to Krakoa.

    And I also want to throw out that comparing Krakoa to North Korea is kind of extreme.

  8. #1373
    Incredible Member Starfish's Avatar
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    Aren't there like three more issues left establishing the new status quo? What I'm trying to say is we might want to wait until we've got the complete picture before getting into any too passionate discussions.

  9. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Excellent point.
    People here are crying "off with their heads!" as if Mutant Nation Krakoa has been in existence for decades already.
    This is just the hopeful early beginnings of an attempt at co-existence. So all the "philosophical projection" is just noise.
    Thing is, we know shyt is going to hit and things will change even before they get a real chance to prove the nay-sayers wrong.
    My reading of this is that the various timelines tell us that co-existence is impossible. Nothing about having mutants on Krakoa is any different than Genosha or that mutant island in life 5. Every timeline (except 1 and 2, which is interesting) shows humans (machines) stopping at nothing to eliminate the mutants. That is made clear.

    It seems to me that the timing of all this, which is not just an accident that it would be when they knew Nimrod would be conceived, is important.

    Putting all the mutants on an island and coming up with their own campfire songs is not the goal of whatever the plan is. IMO.

  10. #1375
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    What Vegan Daddy said. Folks were all 'awww, what a powerful scene, totes gave me the feelz!', but really it was just Kurt teasing Logan for being such a melodramatic jackass, lol.
    Which is why I think that opening scene at the start of HoX 01 should have been omitted as it somewhat lessens the impact of that scene between Logan and Kurt and the overall impact of the notion of Mutant Resurrection as shown in HoX 05.
    The foreshadowing was unnecessary.

  11. #1376
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Putting all the mutants on an island and coming up with their own campfire songs is not the goal of whatever the plan is. IMO.
    Is that really all you think it is though? 9 issues in.

    I think the X-verse is more interesting with a mutant island/culture/society than to go back to what the X-men has been the last 10-15 yrs

    Extinction level nonsense.

    And Genosha got destroyed because of Joe Q. thinking there were too many mutants. IIRC.

    We have an editorial team and writing team that seems interested in making this new status quo work.
    Last edited by CGAR; 09-20-2019 at 10:57 AM.

  12. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    For me, it is not that the situation is not understandable but I compare it to Man of Steel. A lot of people had problems with that movie with the big one being Superman killing someone. While I fully believe and would argue that Superman would kill under that exact situation as the only action left, the real argument, and what is probably really behind people's complaints, is that Superman is not just a name and some powers, it is an idea, and part of that idea is a hero who would not kill. People have expectations about characters and stories about those characters. So it is not surprising that Xavier is crossing the line, it is surprising if Xavier and the X-Men are and that this is what Marvel is actually going to go forward with as "this is what X-Men is."

    No matter what great (or otherwise) country you want to compare it to, for myself, that is not why I read X-Men. And if I am now putting myself in that scenario, which seems to be either mutants or humans will be extinct by some means, I don't think I am in the minority of recognizing I am not a mutant lol.
    Idk I really love the morally grey area that the X-Men are working in now it's what I loved about the Decimation era taking a more aggressive stance against humans, and looking at the timeline I can't blame them in the span of like 2-3 years mutants went from a population of like over 17 million to 198. That's a scary amount of deaths in such a short time all the while the human governments and superheroes of the world are twiddling their thumbs.

    At the end of the day Hickman is eventually gonna turn this into a regular good/evil comic book event like he did with the Avengers but for right now I'm really enjoying the shades of grey he's injecting into his story this is the most discussion the X-boards have had in years that wasn't about shipping wars!

  13. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Is that really all you think it is though? 9 issues in.
    No, and for what it is worth my point is the same as yours, there are 3 more issues and a big status quo twist coming, so I am not buying into this island of coexisting mutants at face value.

  14. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Is that really all you think it is though? 9 issues in.
    I think Hickman is showing us the birth of a Nation just on an accelerated timeline what we saw in this issue was "Society" the birth of Nationalism and mutant pride is it cult like? Yes. But no more than people standing up in their seats and putting their right hand across their heart to sing about how great their nation is.

  15. #1380
    "Comics journalism"? Filthy Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    What is this? Mutant apologist week? There is nothing OK about swinging a UN vote using mind control or manipulation.
    The rules have changed. If human governments can use their resources to make military units and/or killer robots to hunt mutants, then mutants can slightly nudge a human government to slow down on hunting mutants. Not like she was wiped to be pro-mutant or crap herself publicly.

    Judging by her face, I think there's more to the persuasion than the White Queen just flipping a mental switch. Remember what Magneto said to her in HoX #1, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    The Russian government is an actual villainous organization though.
    Also, this--enough in real life that they can call it out here in-fiction, just like North Korea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Speaking of politics, I still don't understand why Brazil was against the mutants or didn't want the drug .

    Is it a reference to the change that the government had in the last elections leaning towards the conservative side?
    Bolsonaro is a psychopath, regardless of where he is on the political spectrum, but also lol at the Brazilian government "leaning toward the conservative side."

    See comments about the two countries above, and apply them to Bolsonaro and his regime.

    Changing the subject I am amazed how anyone is still surprised by the X-men and Xavier crossing the line (for heroes) it's as if they don't even realize that they are desperate after Moira showed the truth anyone would do the same.
    Agreed.

    Besides, I don't know any great nation or country that doesn't do exactly what they do or worst.
    Yeah. As nation-building goes, this is pretty mild.

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