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  1. #1291
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
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    Calvin Rankin from the Exiles was the best version of the Mimic.

  2. #1292
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    I was Wondering if the past adventurers of the X-men matters. It fells like a new Start for the X-men im not complaining, House of X and Powers of X are great reads.But I would like it the if the past books matter

  3. #1293
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    The more I think of this cloning thing, I dont like it and find it hard to buy them as the originals. I really hope there is a twist in the next red issue which reveals that the X-men are actually in pods. Cerebro being used to transfer memories into an empty husk, doesnt make these clones the originals. If Xavier were to transfer Jean's memories into a Wolverine husk, would that now be Jean?I dont accept that.

    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    But he created the eggs that then were fertilized by Hope & co so he's the mother
    a mother is a female parent and Goldballs is and identifies as male, so he is father, regardless of eggs.

  4. #1294
    Fantastic Member GeneTitan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ororo101 View Post
    Never thought I’d see the day where “the necessity of sentinels” would be not merely debated, but openly defended here in the X threads. The idea that fascist-funded and at times government legislated death machines are all of a sudden ok because the “muties” finally decided to stop being eternal victims of circumstance and letting there destiny lie in the hands of their oppressors aka the humankind majority is what is really disturbing here, not the events of this story. It’s clear that some of you only warmed to the idea of the mutant/minority metaphor when they were the idealistic underdogs, who never really won and were consistently murdered over the years. Now however they are getting far too uppity and organized and the fear of what they COULD do is enough to mandate a genocidal space factory to manufacture said death machines.

    What’s even more interesting is seeing how this perspective potentially overlaps into real world divisive issues. It’s easy to see how someone who thinks that “if A.I is the problem then just have GOOD guys in suits man the sentinels and it’ll all be better!” would also cling to the absurd argument that nothing about U.S gun laws/regulation should be changed and that instead we should just have MORE guns in the hand of “good guys”. Because that’ll fix everything! As if in the 9 lives Moira had before humanity, as a collective, didn’t find a way to kill mutants out of fear Every. Single. Time. How would you propose we find these good, wholesome, fair and completely unbiased humans to be in charge of the mutant murder bots hmmm? How would we test that out? Bloody genius idea that is, just like its real world counterpart.

    It’s also easy to see how someone who makes the argument that “well not allllll humans think this way so why are the mutants getting so aggressive/racist??” would say the same thing about America’s police force in relation to African Americans/PoC. It doesn’t MATTER that they “aren’t all bad”. That’s not the point, Carol. The problem is that the ones who ARE are protected by the SYSTEM that has always protected them and swept open and public MURDERS under the rug to protect the organization in its entirety for decades. The only reason it’s even a conversation now is because in the age of smartphones it’s not so easy to get away with your bullshit anymore. When your people are executed in the streets for every day offenses and sometimes for just existing then you can speak on what you think is fair. So when the mutants who have been persecuted, tortured, and murdered endlesslyyyy over the years happen to have a distaste for humanity (i.e Polaris being called “racist” for her comments) because of it, maybe ask yourself why that might be before you go calling them “fascists”. Good Lord is the delusion strong with that one. Definitely some Trumpian “there were bad people on both sides” logic going in there.

    Lastly it’s easy to see why people would see mutants finally taking pride in themselves, embracing their culture and their different-ness, fighting for a safe place to live and EXIST freely and embracing it with a fervor after YEARS of hiding who they are and being told they are the shameful, hell-bound abominations of the earth as being “culty, creepy, and far too over-zealous”. Reminiscent of the same mentality that equates Pride parades to obnoxious, flagrant displays of homosexuality and increased LGBT perspectives in media as being a “forced and unnecessary agenda push”. You literally must have no idea what it’s like to finally accept yourself for who you are and decide that what everyone else says, what the world thinks, what you’ve been told was wrong with you your whole life doesn’t matter anymore. Because it’s an awesomely moving feeling that inspires more than a few “creepy” chants. It feels like a new life, a fresh start, a new beginning. Maybe with that in perspective you can see the “Krakoa Cult” scene a little differently. If not, then enjoy the Straight Pride parades that have become trendy lately, I’m sure you’ll fit in.

    Am I saying that everything is fine and dandy and that nothing will go south as things progress through this story? No, I’m not an idiot and I realize that any great story has tension woven into it on both sides. The X-men can’t be perfect all of the time just like everybody else on earth. But any good story will make someone sit back and really consider what they themselves would do in certain situations. Who they would be in that story. What stance would they take. It seems like a lot of you are only X-men fans when they’re “in their place”. The delightful, dramatic underdogs always fighting to survive. Well I’m sorry to tell you that these underdogs are done being “under” anyone’s boot. Now the world can deal with mutants being a group of equal standing with the power and the agency to back it up. As of now, no once has been harmed and/or targeted by Krakoa and yet some of you are screaming from the rooftops every possible negative action they COULD take as being reason enough for humans to authorize their agencies to make robots that will kill them. And then kill the humans themselves too as we’ve seen what stems from their own stupidity and fear-mongering. Just makes me wonder if this story needed to come along to really make some of you ask yourselves. Are you really X-men fans at all? Maybe the Avengers are better suited to you. Better yet, Hydra.
    I love this post. I found it interesting that people were saying the resurrection ritual was creepy and cult-like when I found it to be a celebration of victory and re-birth. As a gay Black male I've always felt the way the X-Men feel and I love how this book is finally getting to the narrative of "We love ourselves. We're mutants. We will no longer be mistreated and murdered."

  5. #1295
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    the x-men actually have a program, set up to determine if another Mother Mold is created though. I forget the name of it off the top of my head but they would atleast be alerted if another was being created. IT's called sleeping giant.
    I'm not talking about Mother Mold, it was never the threat, Nimrod is the real adversary here and they aren't ready for him.
    We've seen in the Apocalypse timeline what he is capable of, and i don't think the threat has been neutralized.

  6. #1296
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    So just throwing this out there because I feel that we have had enough back in forth from the pro and non-pro Xmen readers (honestly it's been a while since I've seen such a division in a fandom, not even CW, AvX or Schism got this bad), the nature of the soul or the classical "I'm right and your wrong" trope:

    I think that the Sentinel threat is not gone, Nimrod to be more precise, I believe that they just shot themselves in the foot with their preemptive strike.

    Here's why:

    First, the Space station is still there.
    Second, the head scientist is still alive, what's more, if she didn't hate the mutants before she will now because of her husband death (the X-men didn't kill him but they did drive him to do what he did).
    Third, we don't know how many Sentinels they have at their disposal because i sincerely doubt it was just the handful that killed Jean.
    Fourth, Mother Mold head was destroyed but she was active for a brief moment, and when it comes to AI a moment is all they need.
    Fifth, Karima Shapandar, probably the last Omega Prime Sentinel is still alive and she is not on the X-men's side.
    Six, back to the head scientist, what if she decides that instead of taking years to build a Mother Mold she decides to build in weeks or months a single unique Sentinel...Nimrod.
    Seventh, the X-men would never see him or a horde of Sentinels coming would they because in their minds they think the Mother Mold was humanity's Endgame.
    Eight, The X-men have plenty of heavy hitters but all it takes is for one Sentinel to kill their Five and it is game over because the War goes from cold to hot in the blink of an eye.
    Finally, we haven't seen Moira yet, we don't know if this is what she planned all along, she is the gamechanger in all of this because she set the wheels in motion and she can put the brakes on it any time she wants if she doesn't like what is happening. Remeber she faked her death to break away from Charles and Erik and we still don't know why.

    So we two issues each for House and Powers left before we see where Hickman takes us, so i ask you all, what are the odds this will end well?
    Well said. I’ll be thinking about this.

  7. #1297
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    Seeing how humans treated mutants so monstrously through discrimination, aggression and massacres, and this being a such critical moment in mutant history, I feel this Nietzsche quote is appropriate: 'He who fights with monsters should be careful, lest he himself becomes a monster. Because when you gaze for long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you '. Magneto under certain writers (Morrison pre-Xorneto Retcon, for example) tragically became the very same thing that both traumatized and motivated him to fight for mutant survival. Hopefully he and Xavier as Krakoa leaders will be the better men and recognize that from now on they can set things right. If not, this could turn into a new boss same as the old boss situation. Let's see where Hickman take things from here on.
    Last edited by Zaja; 09-19-2019 at 07:55 PM.

  8. #1298
    Amazing Member Chessboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Cult X-Men it is.

    The display of zealotry, rampant racism toward sapiens "humans" and wholehearted acceptance of litteral mass murderers among them was shocking to read.

    Was that Hickman's purpose all along? Showing how mutants can be as flawed as sapiens at the end of the day? Because he's reaaaaaally succeeding here...

    Krakoa looks more and more like a theocracy with Xavier as its god/cult leader, the shocking religious display of Storm and the fanaticism of the crowd before the "Resurrected"... I have no words.

    Hickman is such a brilliant writer, it was still a shocking read to me.
    I think Hickman set the stage for this turn with Moiras' lives. Xavier/Magneto literally had 9 lives of Mutant failure downloaded into their minds and the futility of Mutant passivity/assimilation. The last page in HOX#4 with the letters "NO MORE" plastered everywhere showing the decimation of the mutants set the stage.

  9. #1299
    ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Fantasy Free Me's Avatar
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    I don't get some of the complains to be honest.

    I'm happy that the X-Men decided to stop taking it for a chance and got the fuck away from the humans that will never respect them and just created their own place with blackjack and hookers.
    "I wish I could live life five times over!
    Then I’d be born in five different places,
    and I’d stuff myself with different food from around the world.
    I’d live five different lives with five different occupations...
    and then, for those five times...
    I’d fall in love with the same person...
    "


    - Orihime Inoue

  10. #1300
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Not really, he is storing the stuff other places around the world, their memory. Jean has moved her own consciousness without the aid of cerebro so while it makes it easier i don't think it's needed. It's more like a sperm bank.
    Sure the telepaths may able to move their own consciousness but they can't keep a database of all the other psyches and hence why it's needed and essential just like sinister gene database. If it's destroyed I don't think they can substitute it as recording a person's whole psyche by any telepath would involve the risk of the psychic persona overpowering the base persona of the telepath so they would most probably be screwed. So despite it lacking artificial awareness it is a creator machine for them like the multivac was in the Isaac Asimov stories which enables psychic essence of life to be breathed in empty husks.
    Last edited by Desmark; 09-19-2019 at 09:33 PM.

  11. #1301
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    Those are nine measely timelines, many of which had Moira making things worse.

    And also, I guess I just don't see the point. Everything dies, death is inescapable. And as we have seen repeatedly throughout Marvel history but especially in the past few years, surviving to the end of the universe isn't a pleasant experience. You'll just end up like Galactus or the Elders of the Universe and that's if you're lucky. You could also end up like Knull or some other monster.

  12. #1302
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    You know as I looked back on the issue's final panels where Xavier's guests arrive and we see the Marauders, Acolytes, Hellfire Club, Externals, Morlocks and so forth I am suddenly hit with a question? They got all these baddies but where is Cassandra Nova? I don't ask because she deserves to be there but because she sets out to destroy anything Xavier creates so where is she in all this?

  13. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    You know as I looked back on the issue's final panels where Xavier's guests arrive and we see the Marauders, Acolytes, Hellfire Club, Externals, Morlocks and so forth I am suddenly hit with a question? They got all these baddies but where is Cassandra Nova? I don't ask because she deserves to be there but because she sets out to destroy anything Xavier creates so where is she in all this?
    She got defeated in X-Men Red. Plus during Rosenberg's run she got namedropped as one of the villains that Emma helped to get to Callahan.

  14. #1304
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    She got defeated in X-Men Red. Plus during Rosenberg's run, she got name-dropped as one of the villains that Emma helped to get to Callahan.
    That was in a different timeline where Moira was already dead at the time, not the current one.

  15. #1305
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Again but even giving you that i don't see how that makes it wrong for mutants overall. We don't even know what their politics are. If they have mutant elections next week does that change things? And i'm not talking about you personally i mean in universe. I don't see how in universe the argument can be made this is wrong when people were so willing to work with the inhumans in universe when they clearly felt they were the better species and were killing human citizens who failed to successfully complete the t-process.
    Every dictatorship is “necessary” and every one of them is populist. Having elections is irrelevant, being benign is irrelevant. Many dictatorships were voted for.

    It is ironic that I am on this side of the argument. During Secret Invasion I was patiently telling everyone that Nazi ideology wasn’t fascist. The real problem is that everyone seems to have a huge blind spot where fascism is concerned. They don’t know it’s shape and they don’t know it’s face. They just see this vague ‘dictatorship’ idea and a notion of evil that was born from the Nazi war trials.

    This has the appearance of fascism. You can see it on the page if this issue. A nation united under “one vision”. A movement born from necessity. An agenda that is so important to the ideology of the people that everything and everyone must swing behind it and work for the greater good that is the nation. A nation under one leader.

    We know exactly what that agenda is. Mutant survival. It’s a justifiable agenda, but justifications are stories we tell ourselves. All ideologies are, of any stripe. Honour, nations, ecology, freedom, morality, ethics, feudalism, democracy, these are all artificial constructs that societies build around themselves to justify their actions. Good or bad, they are not tangible. They are codes of action that allow a specific society to operate. They are ways of living together.

    If the ‘way of living together’ is a strong unified reactionary ideology that dictates morality, commerce, identity etc, then that is fascistic.

    Fascism was “necessary”. It was a reaction to communism by those who saw it as a threat to their existence. Fascists were “doing the right thing” because it was justified by stopping their entire system and society from being pulled apart and destroyed by external forces. It was about survival. We look at it as ideologically anathema because we, as democrats, have an entirely different set of stories that we have shaped into values and codes of morality. Ones we see as necessary for “freedom”.

    Boiled right down, this is a story about nation building. We can see it as an analogy for various countries but it really isn’t. This is not like Secret Invasion. It isn’t modelled on a specific moment in history, like Hydra Cap was modelled after Mussolini, this is speculative fiction focused on the ideas.

    Take Dune again. There are multiple ways we can read Dune. On one level it is a story of good vs evil, but on another level it is the story of how a nation can be formed and swayed to the cause of a single dictator. Read Paul as a good guy and you miss half the story. In this case there was a certain amount of soul searching about the Kennedy administration. The use of Arthurian legend as a foundation myth and the manipulation of a nation by a family. But Dune wasn’t analogy. Neither is this.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-19-2019 at 11:46 PM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

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