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  1. #1771
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    That amnesty is granted based only on the genetic appartenance to mutantkind, not because some of those villains might share the same political vision than Xavier's current position.



    This doesn't detract from the morality of pardoning mass murderers on this scale, and the kind of signal it sends about the kind of society
    the Kraked are setting up on their island. I used that example before but would anyone watching a terrorist of thousands be pardoned and welcomed into a new country thanks to his or her origin, not be outraged and disgusted by such a thing? Would a known serial killer walking out of court thanks to amnesty not cause massive public backlash? How is that not nightmare-fuelling level of worrisome? That's exactly what Sue of the FF vocalized. What are they thinking?



    The politics of that choice are evident, of course. But on the ground, we saw how the people actually reacted to them, inside and outside the system. The FF were not impressed by the morality of such pardoning, and US agents were straight up against it, which is understandable. A killer of fellow citizens can now walk away from them without consequence.
    That IS disturbing.
    lol you do know after the Holocaust in exchange for "Cold Wari Intel" the American government harbored thousands of Nazi war criminals ....
    https://www.npr.org/2014/11/05/36142...ife-in-the-u-s
    And don't even mention the couple of South American countries that, after the Holocaust seemingly welcomed Nazis just for the fvck of it
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.his...e-a-nazi-haven
    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    but then you can hardly have people complain about the sapiens being themselves pragmatic and using weapons like Sentinels to protect themselves from this kind of rogue mutants. That's a two-way street.
    Buuuut Sentinels came before Krakoa



    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    And as such, they'll have to face the consequence of such policies, like other nations on Earth regularly do when their less savory policies become exposed. I also want to point out that IF the culture they are leaning toward end-up with moral standards different than those of the rest of the world
    As you can see Mutant Nations are merely following a world tradition and despite the term Homo Superior holding them to a different standard than Homo Sapiens would be prejudiced
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #1772
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Most mutant killers were brutalized and traumatized by humans some even were abused with the backing of human governments think they'll ever get a fair trail?
    Sabertooth, Mystique and other like-minded mutant criminals, they absolutely don't deserve to be held accountable in face of a court as a result, is what you are implying here. You do realize that there's a world of difference between distrusting a legal system, and having said criminals being completely absolved of all the killing and suffering they inflicted?
    And what about the likes of Apocalypse and Selene? Do they get to play the empathy card to excuse them not being held accountable either?

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    You don't think there's blood on the hands of some Humans walking around freely?
    I think there is and I think that's just as wrong. I also think that doesn't make Sabertooth, Apocalypse, Selene and other mutant criminals hands any less bloody as a result.
    You need to realize both aren't mutually exclusive, this is not a binary situation were all sapiens are bad and all mutants are good, and vice-versa. And just because some criminals get away with murder, doesn't mean laws and accountability should be dropped altogether. It just means a better jobs need be doing into apprehending said criminals, because, what system is perfect, really? Can you see the nuance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Instead of obsessing over the Mutant Nations morality humans should look at the human controlled society that produced them
    It's not an either/or situation once again.
    Also Krakoa is trying to establish itself as a new country, perception is still crucial at this stage and the fun part is, Xavier and Magneto are perfectly aware of that. The blanket amnesty to all mutants regardless of their previous acts IS raising concerns already. For all the boasting about mutant superiority over sapiens, the leaders of Krakoa are displaying ethics just as debatable.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  3. #1773
    Mighty Member scouse mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    It would be trivial to suggest it was too late. That on some level it would be impossible to divide biology and technology at this stage. That even removing the sentinel tech would not alter the biological programming that it has set in motion and as such the machine part would re-emerge.
    Which would make her quite the tragic villain as she simply has no choice in the matter.

  4. #1774
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    What if the deliberate division gets out of hand and leads to rioting and bloodied foreheads in the streets?

    And if we get thrown a curve ball and there IS NO RECONCILIATION planned?

    Maybe it thrashes the current setting to reinstall a new one now that Disney has all cards (but Spidey, and Namor) in its hand, but wants a do-over.
    There is clearly a reconciliation planned but this is just act one and reconciliation will be a way off yet. Dawn of X is a long term project with implications for the entire franchise.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  5. #1775
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol you do know after the Holocaust in exchange for "Cold Wari Intel" the American government harbored thousands of Nazi war criminals ....
    https://www.npr.org/2014/11/05/36142...ife-in-the-u-s
    And don't even mention the couple of South American countries that, after the Holocaust seemingly welcomed Nazis just for the fvck of it
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.his...e-a-nazi-haven
    Yes, I do know that already, thanks.
    And those actions were just as despicable.
    I'm gonna repeat myself but you need to stop displaying such a binary views on things.
    Pointing out the flaws and limits on one side, doesn't mean a blind eye is turned on the other. It's childish to act as if it's the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Buuuut Sentinels came before Krakoa
    My point to the other poster was if mutankind is willing to use mutant criminals with such an history of massacres as super weapons, and if people around here are advocating for that kind of dirty pragmatism and find it acceptable, then the sapiens applying that same kind of pragmatism when it comes to using Sentinels as weapons for their protection is just as understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    As you can see Mutant Nations are merely following a world tradition and despite the term Homo Superior holding them to a different standard than Homo Sapiens would be prejudiced
    Again with the binary view on things. Gonna have to repeat this to you again: "Pointing out the flaws and limits on one side, doesn't mean a blind eye is turned on the other. It's childish to act as if it's the case"
    .
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  6. #1776
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouse mouse View Post
    Which would make her quite the tragic villain as she simply has no choice in the matter.
    I was holding out hope for choice. I was suggesting that Moira can fix her, or at least set in motion a means of bringing her into the fold.

    Hickman seems to like the classic archetypes, and she is less interesting ‘healed of sentinel technology’.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  7. #1777
    Mighty Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    I just thought of something else. If Vulcan is apparently coming back, would Petra, Sway, and Darwin come back too? (Did Darwin die again?) Surely being students of Moira AND being Xavier’s first students to die would be a priority in reviving.

  8. #1778
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    The blanket amnesty of villains is a problem.
    Good thing they haven't shown us blanket amnesty, yet. You're jumping the gun. The book ended moments after the villains arrived. Let's. see. what. happens. :-) If next issue the villains are playing on tire swings and cannonballing into lakes, then we can discuss blanket amnesty.

    I haven't seen Sabretooth since the trial. Have you? There's a reason Hickman made a big show of his trial and the FF's reaction to Scott. The FF clearly do not have faith that the mutants know how to handle their criminals. Let's see if they're right.
    Last edited by JB; 09-22-2019 at 06:42 AM.

  9. #1779
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    I just thought of something else. If Vulcan is apparently coming back, would Petra, Sway, and Darwin come back too? (Did Darwin die again?) Surely being students of Moira AND being Xavier’s first students to die would be a priority in reviving.
    I hope so! Those characters have a lot of potential and I'd love to see them interact with our classic X-Men.

  10. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    I just thought of something else. If Vulcan is apparently coming back, would Petra, Sway, and Darwin come back too? (Did Darwin die again?) Surely being students of Moira AND being Xavier’s first students to die would be a priority in reviving.
    Darwin is alive. Just not used at all

  11. #1781
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    I wouldn’t be surprised if next issue shows Xavier making an example of Sabertooth to the other villains. Some kind of hearing along the lines of “This mutant endangered the sovereignty of Krakoa by killing several humans while on an important mission. He who breaks the law must be punished! Back to the house of pain!”

    It’ll be a message to the others. Stay here and be good, and I’ll give you eternal life in paradise. Disobey and this is what you get.

    Then maybe we find out what the hidden spot on Krakoa is. Maybe Xavier will even cast Creed out into Limbo or something similar...very much in line with the biblical angle.

    Pretty sure though that Krakoa’s safety would be what’s cited as the reason and not the loss of human life.

  12. #1782
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I wouldn’t be surprised if next issue shows Xavier making an example of Sabertooth to the other villains. Some kind of hearing along the lines of “This mutant endangered the sovereignty of Krakoa by killing several humans while on an important mission. He who breaks the law must be punished! Back to the house of pain!”

    It’ll be a message to the others. Stay here and be good, and I’ll give you eternal life in paradise. Disobey and this is what you get.

    Then maybe we find out what the hidden spot on Krakoa is. Maybe Xavier will even cast Creed out into Limbo or something similar...very much in line with the biblical angle.

    Pretty sure though that Krakoa’s safety would be what’s cited as the reason and not the loss of human life.
    Which would make total sense.

  13. #1783
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I wouldn’t be surprised if next issue shows Xavier making an example of Sabertooth to the other villains. Some kind of hearing along the lines of “This mutant endangered the sovereignty of Krakoa by killing several humans while on an important mission. He who breaks the law must be punished! Back to the house of pain!”

    It’ll be a message to the others. Stay here and be good, and I’ll give you eternal life in paradise. Disobey and this is what you get.

    Then maybe we find out what the hidden spot on Krakoa is. Maybe Xavier will even cast Creed out into Limbo or something similar...very much in line with the biblical angle.

    Pretty sure though that Krakoa’s safety would be what’s cited as the reason and not the loss of human life.
    I could definitely see this happening. Creed has not been shown to have gotten a free pass for his antics. He's not a villain sue. And I certainly think something unpleasant is waiting for him, and letting the other villains see his punishment & making an example of him fits something the character would be used for. lol

    Plenty of people are jumping the gun just because he was not permitted to be judged BY HUMANS, and take it out of context that he won't be judged at all. There's a HUGE difference.

    He didn't get to witness the rebirth of Cyclops' team because he's stashed somewhere else evidently. Again last we saw him, Emma & the Cuckoos left his chains and shackles on as they took him from the humans. So didn't sound like he was gonna be freed anytime soon.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 09-22-2019 at 07:03 AM.

  14. #1784
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Wow! People are really getting all caught up in their seemingly very personal "What-if" theories. If nothing else, HiX-Man has certainly exposed the "headless chickens" with his provocative story-telling.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 09-22-2019 at 07:19 AM.

  15. #1785
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I wouldn’t be surprised if next issue shows Xavier making an example of Sabertooth to the other villains. Some kind of hearing along the lines of “This mutant endangered the sovereignty of Krakoa by killing several humans while on an important mission. He who breaks the law must be punished! Back to the house of pain!”

    It’ll be a message to the others. Stay here and be good, and I’ll give you eternal life in paradise. Disobey and this is what you get.

    Then maybe we find out what the hidden spot on Krakoa is. Maybe Xavier will even cast Creed out into Limbo or something similar...very much in line with the biblical angle.

    Pretty sure though that Krakoa’s safety would be what’s cited as the reason and not the loss of human life.
    Now that would go a long way into mitigating that impression of absence of accountability HoX has been giving so far.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

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