HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Triniking1234]

lol. There's a lot of characters who've been brought back by getting new bodies.

Cap America, Iron Man, Human Torch, Thor, Jean Grey.

This is a problem now?

Mad Lads.

[Ororo101]

My previous post.

Sorry but they state Cerebro copy’s each mutants mind weekly so how could that actually be them? Without some sort of magic these are just clones with memory implants.

Or I’ll put it another way if this process was offered to you as a healthy viable person would you take to say de-age yourself? I know I wouldn’t unless I’m about to die. I mean do you really think a person is just body and data? I sure don’t.

Very interesting points of view. If the body that was offered at a younger age was of my own dna and genetic material that I consider that exact, unique code to be my own. As owning it in a way because it’s impossible for anyone else, living or dead, to have had that exact code. So yes if someone used my genetic material to make me a host body that didnt have the same scars, damage, wear and tear and general use that my current one has? Well this might sound strange to some but I didn’t know why I wouldn’t take that deal. My body is just replicated cells that follow my genetic code. A body with the same genetic code no matter how new, would still in effect be “my” body. So yes I would I think.

The mind is where is gets tricky I guess. And that’s where you just have to go on the word of what they tell you in the story (so far). What we’ve been told is that Xavier has found a way to make an exact copy of your mind, your personality, and the sum of your experiences. I wouldn’t accept that in any altered way/form but if we are to believe him when he says that then yes. I do believe that with a genetically coded body and a perfectly replicated mind, it would in essence be me, exactly. If a person is not a personalized physical form with the sum total of data and experiences gained in their life than what makes a person? What would you say is missing?

[starduck]

not sure if this has been asked already but how on earth do they explain Wolverine being "reborn" with his Adamantium? even though it's not shown you know editorial isn't going to let him lose it
and what about characters like Magik whose got a total darkside that could be considered not part of her genetic make up?

Proteus, a reality warper, did it. The blonde girl was Husk not Magik

[Meta jon]

Proteus, a reality warper, did it. The blonde girl was Husk not Magik

Knew that was Husk, just using Magik as an example

Proteus is a good reason though

[starduck]

Knew that was Husk, just using Magik as an example

Proteus is a good reason though

For Magik maybe getting ger memories back would trigger her dark side like how Cyclops brain damage was restored after Xavier gave him his memories

[Ororo101]

No. Loving the X-Men doesn’t mean agreeing with everything that is being done, or said, by them. Loving is not agreeing with everything in general. Perspective is important, and the ability to criticize whenever it feels necessary to do so is also important. The X-men “in their place”? Underdogs “under” anyone’s boot?
Please, get out of here with your assumptions. It’s tiresome to stay polite. I’ve been on this forum for years. And for years, I’ve considered Hickman has the best writer to possibly take the X-Men in a new direction. I didn’t say anything like many around here that I know of, but it’s HILARIOUS to me to see the fandom around these parts discovering thanks to this story how ridiculously crafted and brilliant Hickman is as a writer. X-writers have been such a lacklustre crowd for years now that people are welcoming him as the second coming of Morrison. Bottom line being: don’t go around slapping another one of your out of left field assumptions about me or my expectations about the X-Men. You don’t know me and you definitely don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to that. Suffice it to say that I found LAUGHABLE the fact they never evolved beyond the perimeter defined by the X-Office, and Hickman is exactly the man they needed to give them a new direction. Screaming from the rooftop? No, most of the people here are trying to be logical about the way they present their arguments. If you feel threatened by this to the point of, well pointing fingers and accusing people of being secretly gun apologists with Trumpian mentality and homophobic tendencies, false X-fans to boot, more power to you. That's caricatural enough as is.

Right. As I said, moving on.

This is how I feel. The entire purpose of Storm's scene. To show we aren't dealing with clone & knock-offs. It's the real genuine characters who have been given a power of rebirth similar to Moira. The soul & consciousness is returned with their memories in tact so they can remember their lives & experiences.

This is exactly how I feel too. I think we were all but led by the horns to believe that these are what they say they are. Exact replicas of the characters they choose to revive. Now the morality of that is neither here nor there and entirely subjective. But I do think they are the genuine artifact.

[Woozie]

Knew that was Husk, just using Magik as an example

Proteus is a good reason though

Magik's mutation activated after she went to limbo. So assuming Xavier got her reading, it'd be one that's post her soul being rend to shreds.

[cranger]

This is how I feel. The entire purpose of Storm's scene. To show we aren't dealing with clone & knock-offs. It's the real genuine characters who have been given a power of rebirth similar to Moira. The soul & consciousness is returned with their memories in tact so they can remember their lives & experiences.

It could be that way, but I think the more important reason for the scene is that it is meant to convince the mutants that it is true. So that if they should die, or a friend or loved on dies, that they will come back. That when they suddenly start churning out hundreds of mutants a day, that it will not be traumatic.

The way the info page explains it, especially with the mentions of morality and the risk of duplication, gave me the impression that these are not genuine at all. Memory backups stored in data centers, not quite capturing the soul in my opinion.

[Zaja]

IMO they do have souls, just not the same as those who died destroying Mother Mold had.

[CRaymond]

IMO they do have souls, just not the same as those who died destroying Mother Mold had.

individual souls are a lie told to us by our minds

[Ororo101]

It could be that way, but I think the more important reason for the scene is that it is meant to convince the mutants that it is true. So that if they should die, or a friend or loved on dies, that they will come back. That when they suddenly start churning out hundreds of mutants a day, that it will not be traumatic.

The way the info page explains it, especially with the mentions of morality and the risk of duplication, gave me the impression that these are not genuine at all. Memory backups stored in data centers, not quite capturing the soul in my opinion.

I understand what you’re saying and see your perspective. So what would qualify as a “soul” to you? Something outside of consciousness within a physical body? How was someone capture the essence of someone’s soul of not through the mind? By any measurable way?

[Zaja]

individual souls are a lie told to us by our minds

If we were talking about RL, I would not refute the claim. Seeing as we are talking about a Multiverse where souls are proved to exist, well... not so much.

[Ororo101]

individual souls are a lie told to us by our minds

Lol blunt but relatable to my own assumption. Without my consciousness I am only a husk/body/lump of organized genetic material. Without my body my consciousness has nowhere to be stored. But together they are the sum parts of me. So if those can be identically replicated, then what is the difference?

[Zaja]

Say this new Scott sold his sold to Mephisto. Say another from a different timeline did not. Would you say both Scott Summers souls are property of Mephisto?

[cranger]

I understand what you’re saying and see your perspective. So what would qualify as a “soul” to you? Something outside of consciousness within a physical body? How was someone capture the essence of someone’s soul of not through the mind? By any measurable way?

Well my view of soul is based on Catholicism, not that I am holding Marvel to that view although there are enough stories depicting souls going to various afterlives, but to me the creepy thing is that whatever soul or mind these husks are born with, they are simply being programmed, or overwritten, with the brain pattern from a computer database.