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  1. #1276
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    It amazes me how easily some think a mutant can just walk away from their human family to go join a bunch of strangers who they have nothing in common with aside from a random x-gene. Let's say a young black man who is extremely close to his family, active in his community and fights for social justice and change becomes a mutant. Then Xavier, Scott or Magneto shows up and says come with us, we're your "true" family now, what is that new mutant suppose to do? Just leave his close knit black family, his black community to go live on white mutant island? His entire life was lived as a black male, all his experiences was as a black male, now he is suppose to put aside his blackness to live as a mutant first. He is now suppose to see his loving family as human enemies who want to kill him, he is now suppose to abandon his community where he fought for change and dignity (and where he could use his newfound abilities to benefit his community) to go become some foot soldier in a mutant army. Are we suppose to think that he would gladly accept that proposition, that any mutant in a similar position would so easily accept that? Black mothers and grandmothers are very close to black sons and grandsons, to think that a young black male would turn away from them or consider a bunch of predominantly white mutants as their true family over their real ones is absurd. This notion being presented that all mutants on earth is some giant hivemind that all believe the same thing, are all on the same page, that not one among them has any reservations about what's happening is hard to accept. Mutants are individuals with their own thoughts, desires and motivations. Not all will accept the Krakoa option, not all will follow or agree with Xavier, not all will leave their families and consider strangers their real family. Realistically that young black male mutant will not be on Krakoa, he will not accept that now that he has powers means he gives up all that he knows, all that matters to him and he holds dear. He may be mutant but he is a black man first and foremost, and no stranger who can read minds or teleport will ever be closer to him than his own human mother. HOX/POX is essentially saying mutants have to choose and I think objectivity many mutants would not choose Krakoa. This is why I can never accept that in the MU someone like white, rich, privileged, elitist Emma Frost or blonde haired blue eyed Alex Summers experiences more racism, bigotry and prejudice because they're a mutant than Sam Wilson, Rage or any black person. It dosen't hold up.
    It makes sense if you think about how general society treats them and what kind of target that puts on their families back. In many cases we have seen humans turn on their mutant children
    It's actually more normal than embracing them. Especially in a family where you have non mutant children to worry about.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  2. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    It amazes me how easily some think a mutant can just walk away from their human family to go join a bunch of strangers who they have nothing in common with aside from a random x-gene. Let's say a young black man who is extremely close to his family, active in his community and fights for social justice and change becomes a mutant. Then Xavier, Scott or Magneto shows up and says come with us, we're your "true" family now, what is that new mutant suppose to do? Just leave his close knit black family, his black community to go live on white mutant island? His entire life was lived as a black male, all his experiences was as a black male, now he is suppose to put aside his blackness to live as a mutant first. He is now suppose to see his loving family as human enemies who want to kill him, he is now suppose to abandon his community where he fought for change and dignity (and where he could use his newfound abilities to benefit his community) to go become some foot soldier in a mutant army. Are we suppose to think that he would gladly accept that proposition, that any mutant in a similar position would so easily accept that? Black mothers and grandmothers are very close to black sons and grandsons, to think that a young black male would turn away from them or consider a bunch of predominantly white mutants as their true family over their real ones is absurd. This notion being presented that all mutants on earth is some giant hivemind that all believe the same thing, are all on the same page, that not one among them has any reservations about what's happening is hard to accept. Mutants are individuals with their own thoughts, desires and motivations. Not all will accept the Krakoa option, not all will follow or agree with Xavier, not all will leave their families and consider strangers their real family. Realistically that young black male mutant will not be on Krakoa, he will not accept that now that he has powers means he gives up all that he knows, all that matters to him and he holds dear. He may be mutant but he is a black man first and foremost, and no stranger who can read minds or teleport will ever be closer to him than his own human mother. HOX/POX is essentially saying mutants have to choose and I think objectivity many mutants would not choose Krakoa. This is why I can never accept that in the MU someone like white, rich, privileged, elitist Emma Frost or blonde haired blue eyed Alex Summers experiences more racism, bigotry and prejudice because they're a mutant than Sam Wilson, Rage or any black person. It dosen't hold up.
    it's fictional discrimination because mutants are fictional beings
    their discrimination is measured in the number of organizations and killer robots that want to kill them all
    Emma and Shaw were white and wealthy, but also mutants in the closet, Emma outed herself in the Morrison run, and in the Whedon run in the first story she mentions it's the first year they dont invite her to some high society charity dinner about the preservation of some kind of architecture, only because they discovered she is a mutant.

  3. #1278
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    We are supposed to feel both uncomfortable and unnerved, but also excited and liberated. That's why this thread already has 80+ pages, the controversial and divisive nature of dynamite material.

    Yes, it's very much like Dune. It has cultish vibes. Yes, the mutants are embracing their non-homo sapiens status and supremacy.
    No, I don't believe Xavier is presented as a dictator. Yes, I do think he is dangerous. I think they're all dangerous and can likely go too far. I also think it's about time.
    The X-Men have transcended traditional comic book morality. For the foreseeable future they will likely be positioned as potential 'villains' opposite other Marvel heroes, when in reality thus far they are just doing things their own way from now on.
    I don't find them evil nor do I find them wholly good. I think it's troubling and fascinating and awesome. I think they are doing what must be done for themselves.

    We can root for them and fear them in equal measure. Some of us will also be fully on one side or the other, as this thread demonstrates. Either way, I love what's become of the X-Men.
    And in this way Hickman has cemented himself among the ranks of Claremont and Morrison...perhaps will even surpase them.

  4. #1279
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    Layla miller should be here with the five
    No, because she is human. Or at least she was when we last saw her with Madrox.

  5. #1280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    So I guess if you didn't bring up the race card for this story, you wouldn't have gotten dinner tonight.
    Please! Like everytime people bring up the "mutant metaphor" it's not about race, or gender or identity. Or everytime racist, bigoted humans are brought up to make a point it's not about race? Yeah my post stands.

  6. #1281
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    It amazes me how easily some think a mutant can just walk away from their human family to go join a bunch of strangers who they have nothing in common with aside from a random x-gene.
    I'm not sure where you're seeing this. We've already received info that certain mutants spoilers:
    will be performing outreach to the mutants of the world that choose not to move to Krakoa
    end of spoilers.

  7. #1282
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    We are supposed to feel both uncomfortable and unnerved, but also excited and liberated. That's why this thread already has 80+ pages, the controversial and divisive nature of dynamite material.

    Yes, it's very much like Dune. It has cultish vibes. Yes, the mutants are embracing their non-homo sapiens status and supremacy.
    No, I don't believe Xavier is presented as a dictator. Yes, I do think he is dangerous. I think they're all dangerous and can likely go too far. I also think it's about time.
    The X-Men have transcended traditional comic book morality. For the foreseeable future they will likely be positioned as potential 'villains' opposite other Marvel heroes, when in reality thus far they are just doing things their own way from now on.
    I don't find them evil nor do I find them wholly good. I think it's troubling and fascinating and awesome. I think they are doing what must be done for themselves.

    We can root for them and fear them in equal measure. Some of us will also be fully on one side or the other, as this thread demonstrates. Either way, I love what's become of the X-Men.
    100% agreed. We still have three issues to go so I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle (so to speak) should consider what happened in this issue to be the final status quo. We know Hickman has more twists coming and I'm ready to enjoy all of it.

  8. #1283
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    So just throwing this out there because I feel that we have had enough back in forth from the pro and non-pro Xmen readers (honestly it's been a while since I've seen such a division in a fandom, not even CW, AvX or Schism got this bad), the nature of the soul or the classical "I'm right and your wrong" trope:

    I think that the Sentinel threat is not gone, Nimrod to be more precise, I believe that they just shot themselves in the foot with their preemptive strike.

    Here's why:

    First, the Space station is still there.
    Second, the head scientist is still alive, what's more, if she didn't hate the mutants before she will now because of her husband death (the X-men didn't kill him but they did drive him to do what he did).
    Third, we don't know how many Sentinels they have at their disposal because i sincerely doubt it was just the handful that killed Jean.
    Fourth, Mother Mold head was destroyed but she was active for a brief moment, and when it comes to AI a moment is all they need.
    Fifth, Karima Shapandar, probably the last Omega Prime Sentinel is still alive and she is not on the X-men's side.
    Six, back to the head scientist, what if she decides that instead of taking years to build a Mother Mold she decides to build in weeks or months a single unique Sentinel...Nimrod.
    Seventh, the X-men would never see him or a horde of Sentinels coming would they because in their minds they think the Mother Mold was humanity's Endgame.
    Eight, The X-men have plenty of heavy hitters but all it takes is for one Sentinel to kill their Five and it is game over because the War goes from cold to hot in the blink of an eye.
    Finally, we haven't seen Moira yet, we don't know if this is what she planned all along, she is the gamechanger in all of this because she set the wheels in motion and she can put the brakes on it any time she wants if she doesn't like what is happening. Remeber she faked her death to break away from Charles and Erik and we still don't know why.

    So we two issues each for House and Powers left before we see where Hickman takes us, so i ask you all, what are the odds this will end well?

  9. #1284
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    So just throwing this out there because I feel that we have had enough back in forth from the pro and non-pro Xmen readers (honestly it's been a while since I've seen such a division in a fandom, not even CW, AvX or Schism got this bad), the nature of the soul or the classical "I'm right and your wrong" trope:

    I think that the Sentinel threat is not gone, Nimrod to be more precise, I believe that they just shot themselves in the foot with their preemptive strike.

    Here's why:

    First, the Space station is still there.
    Second, the head scientist is still alive, what's more, if she didn't hate the mutants before she will now because of her husband death (the X-men didn't kill him but they did drive him to do what he did).
    Third, we don't know how many Sentinels they have at their disposal because i sincerely doubt it was just the handful that killed Jean.
    Fourth, Mother Mold head was destroyed but she was active for a brief moment, and when it comes to AI a moment is all they need.
    Fifth, Karima Shapandar, probably the last Omega Prime Sentinel is still alive and she is not on the X-men's side.
    Six, back to the head scientist, what if she decides that instead of taking years to build a Mother Mold she decides to build in weeks or months a single unique Sentinel...Nimrod.
    Seventh, the X-men would never see him or a horde of Sentinels coming would they because in their minds they think the Mother Mold was humanity's Endgame.
    Eight, The X-men have plenty of heavy hitters but all it takes is for one Sentinel to kill their Five and it is game over because the War goes from cold to hot in the blink of an eye.
    Finally, we haven't seen Moira yet, we don't know if this is what she planned all along, she is the gamechanger in all of this because she set the wheels in motion and she can put the brakes on it any time she wants if she doesn't like what is happening. Remeber she faked her death to break away from Charles and Erik and we still don't know why.

    So we two issues each for House and Powers left before we see where Hickman takes us, so i ask you all, what are the odds this will end well?
    the x-men actually have a program, set up to determine if another Mother Mold is created though. I forget the name of it off the top of my head but they would atleast be alerted if another was being created. IT's called sleeping giant.
    Last edited by jwatson; 09-19-2019 at 06:43 PM.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  10. #1285
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    So Krakoa is basically Israel?

    There's a very similar ideology at work.

  11. #1286
    Fantastic Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relugus View Post
    So Krakoa is basically Israel?

    There's a very similar ideology at work.
    Bad analogy. D+ for effort.

  12. #1287
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Please! Like everytime people bring up the "mutant metaphor" it's not about race, or gender or identity. Or everytime racist, bigoted humans are brought up to make a point it's not about race? Yeah my post stands.
    Your point doesn't stand because you're trying to apply our world's logic to the X-Men's. Most likely that black mutant kid would have to hide his mutant side from people of the same colour as him due to how badly mutants are treated in 616. Trinary got outed and she was imprisoned by her own people. The same happened to Sapna in Extraordinary. Chances are in this situation the mutant will go with the other mutants where it's safer for them and their families.
    "Cable was right!"

  13. #1288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    So I guess if you didn't bring up the race card for this story, you wouldn't have gotten dinner tonight.
    Yikes. Smh

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Please! Like everytime people bring up the "mutant metaphor" it's not about race, or gender or identity. Or everytime racist, bigoted humans are brought up to make a point it's not about race? Yeah my post stands.
    Just ignore it.

  14. #1289
    Amazing Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    So... Mimic can take on the powers of five individuals (don’t have to be Mutants). He could take the place of all five if needed.... I really hope they take this chance to make him like Exiles Mimic. I loved him as a character and really miss him.

  15. #1290
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
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    Perhaps the real villains will always be the humans and sentinels and the Phalanx.

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