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  1. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    Well, at least it would be consistent if the Avengers ignored Sentinels being built on Tony's planet-destroying weapon but got all worked up that Mutants have a safe haven. Hopefully they don't destroy Krakoa like they destroyed Utopia.

    Nah, this time the XMen invited gods like Apocalypse, Selene, etc to join. They learned from their mistakes. Especially Moira.

  2. #1637
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    It can't be that strict. Surely they wouldn't boot the human child of a mutant couple.
    Well, there is an issue of What If? That paints that scenario...end result, it did not end well for the child.
    Not saying that will be the case here or else we would be seeing Mama Jubilee going medieval with Wolverine backing her up.

  3. #1638
    Fantastic Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Nah, this time the XMen invited gods like Apocalypse, Selene, etc to join. They learned from their mistakes. Especially Moira.
    I want Moira to be a leader in the X-men. It would be a shame if she were to disappear again.

  4. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The XMen are the ultimate survivors. The Avengers are the popular government sponsored heroes,

    That conceptually puts them far apart.

    They cannot be friends.
    I'm pretty sure the Avengers (Not Avengers off shoots or Dark Avengers) haven't been on the government payroll since the 80s. Like I'm pretty sure there was a big story, related to the Avengers helping the X-men with Genosha stuff that led to the American government dropping funding.

  5. #1640
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The XMen are the ultimate survivors. The Avengers are the popular government sponsored heroes,

    That conceptually puts them far apart.

    They cannot be friends.
    As we all know, the Avengers have spent the majority of their history on good terms with the American government.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  6. #1641
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    At first I thought she was being manipulated but then the way she so coldly pushed for Scott's murder made me think, like you said, the Sentinel programming took over again. And Hickman gave us that breakdown of Omega Sentinels and their process so it fits.
    The question though is, what will the X-Men do about this? Will they treat her as the enemy when their paths cross again or try to help/reason with her? Last they saw of her, she seemed happy that her cybernetics had gone inert.

  7. #1642
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    I actually do want an explanation for Karima. That is a glaring hole that needs filling.

  8. #1643
    Amazing Member Bloxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The XMen are the ultimate survivors. The Avengers are the popular government sponsored heroes,

    That conceptually puts them far apart.

    They cannot be friends.
    This is nothing more than an excuse.
    Especially when last I checked when the Avengers got a Shield liaison that was viewed as doing more damage than helping them, and in their current run the government is against the Avengers.

  9. #1644
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Don't forget that Siryn has also ascended to godhood.

    Xavier can control Shaw with Lourdes Chantelle, Harry Leland and Shinobi Shaw

    He can increase his threat level by ressurecting the Externals

    Layla Miller has ties to Dr. Doom

  10. #1645
    Astonishing Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    No they aren't.
    The concept of the Avengers are to be the Earth's mightiest heroes, the best heroes teaming to ensure the safely of earth, The concept of the X-Men were to be Earth's strangest heroes, heroes of a world that feared them, there's nothing about these concepts that mean they can't be friends, that they can't work together for the greater good.
    There's nothing more than editorial mandates that keeps the Avengers from helping out the X-Men with their problems and vice versa.
    Why can't the X-Men have a nation and still help the Earth? The X-Men are going to the Savage Land in December to stop a world threat before it can attack the other nations of the world. Why can't the X-Men be a nation like Wakanda?

    So far they have simply granted their villains amnesty, that does not mean they agree with those villains, they are saying "Hey all these years a lot of you were fighting with us and humans to establish a mutant nation, well we have a nation now, and as long as you abide by the laws of our country we will pardon your past crimes and give you citizenship."

    That does not mean everyone gets a blanket get out of jail free card, it means everyone gets to start as a citizen of Krakoa with a clean slate. Xavier and Magneto are probably anticipating between 50% and 70% of the villains will become productive peaceful citizens, and then you have the 30% to 50% who are going to commit crimes on Krakoa or try to attack the humans from Krakoa. Krakoa has international obligations now to maintain their treaties with so many countries and to maintain their seat on the United Nations, they have to abide by international laws just like any other country. Krakoa doesn't want to be sanctioned, they want to keep the trade flowing so they can buy the goods they need for their own country and people.

    Keeping humans out is a security precaution more than anything, you can never know if some human is going to bring in a bomb, a nanite weapon, or even some kind of transport device to allow Sentinels to arrive on the island. After years of human governments making repeated efforts to exterminate or enslave the mutant race they are being very careful now that they have a country. Just because you have trade agreements and you yourself intend to act in good faith doesn't mean that the other governments will, and this has already been proven with the Orchis facility which was receiving funding from government organizations and business interests with the intention of deploying the manufactured Master Molds into Krakoa and letting them decimate the mutants, or enslave the ones they want to keep for experimentation.

    In every possible future Moira has seen so far the humans manufacture Sentinels to wipe out the mutant race. Every possible future!

    Does Magneto and Xavier have a hidden agenda, probably, I don't trust the man with the Cerebro helmet on 24/7 any further than I can throw him. That doesn't mean that agenda is war with the humans though, it could mean they intend to colonize the Moon and Mars before the humans can stop them. With colonies off world they can move their entire nation off planet. Are they going to make overtures to the Shi'ar for a peace, trade, and mutual defense pact, there is a good chance they might do that too. The agenda is to aggressively defend their right to have a nation in the first place and they are moving as fast as they can to solidify their defences before one of the human governments sends Sentinels to attack them.

    I get it, people want the X-Men to live in Massachusetts and answer "Yes Master!" whenever the human government agents come to their home and surround it with Sentinels. Bend a knee to the humans and show that you are a good obedient mutant who will do what you are told. This is what happened to Rachel, they wanted to dehumanize her so much that they turned Rachel and the other captured mutant children from her world into DOGS! Ahab got a sadistic pleasure out of torturing and brainwashing mutants to be like that, he paraded Rachel around on a leash because it gave him pleasure to do so, and the American government of her world was all on board for treating mutants that way. As far as the humans of Rachel's world were concerned mutants were nothing more than animals that should be rounded up and either imprisoned, killed, used for experimentation, or turned into slaves for the Regime!

    For the last few years we have been coming to a breaking point, how can you be heroes for a world that doesn't just want to oppress you, they want to kill your entire race. How do you stand by and watch the US Government imprison 1000's of Mutants. Before Decimation, in X-Men Blue, Magneto found out that the US Government was rounding up mutant children into containment centres and using them for experimentation and trying to find a way to strip them all of their powers, or kill them. This is just one step before you hire someone like Dr Rory Campbell to come in and see if it's possible to brainwash mutants to be obedient slaves for their human masters.

    I can't believe I even have to type this stuff. I imagine that some bad things are going to happen, a lot of countries make mistakes when they are establishing them. They might even accidentally start a war. But after all the genocide the humans have inflicted on mutants what do you expect them to do, bend over and take it in the ass?

  11. #1646
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    I'm pretty sure Siryn has forgotten Siryn has ascended to Godhood.

    It's funny cause nobody bothers using Siryn when Banshee is right there.

  12. #1647
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    I actually do want an explanation for Karima. That is a glaring hole that needs filling.
    I chalked it up to Hickman's data page about the Omega Cycle in HOX # 3. The human to omega sentinel process in 8 stages and it seemed to me Karima was far enough along to be mostly machine at that point.

  13. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I chalked it up to Hickman's data page about the Omega Cycle in HOX # 3. The human to omega sentinel process in 8 stages and it seemed to me Karima was far enough along to be mostly machine at that point.
    Yeah no, a dossier about some stuff ain't gonna fly with me. Hickman and his graphs ain't getting off that easy. He needs to explain that, cause it needs real explaining. Not some god damn cliff note that'll be a wiki entry.

  14. #1649
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    Sure, I get that. I think thatís the reason why Hickman is presenting the X-Men in a very monolithic manner. No oneís really questioning anything about the plan or the methods theyíre using and so on. At first, that bothered me, but as the story has gone on, I think I get why heís doing that, and I think it works for this status quo establishing series.

    Same as taking the X-Menís most notable human ally and making her a closeted mutant. It very much puts mutantkind into that isolated state.

    However, I donít think that can last. As things move forward and we have 6 or 8 books with several characters a piece in each one, we better get some diversity of opinion or else itís going to be bland. We/Phalanx will not enjoy.

    Iím all for the path theyíre taking for storytelling purposes. This is the best the X-Men have been in a long time and itís thought provoking and new. I love it.

    But from a more in-fiction perspective, I donít know if I can agree with it all. I absolutely question some of the things being done. I wonder if others are actually a good idea.

    I donít think that makes me ďagainst the mutantsĒ or anything like that.
    Common sense dictates that you are not a mutant hater but given some of the comments i've read on the thread dictate that common sense was hit a an 18 wheeler and therefore your stance is hostile against mutants.

    Seriously wondering what Hickman plans are in the long run because i do agree that this stance we are seeing will be permanent, long lasting yes but not permanent.

  15. #1650
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Thatís one thing about this run thatís been bothering me. Itís treated the whole human/mutant thing as black and white but what about the gray? What about the humans who have either always been supporters of mutantkind or those who have come around to see their original prejudices were wrong? Not everyone of humanity has wronged mutants (in fact, they have quite a few friends) so why is it that humanity as a whole is treated like they are all trash while all mutants are treated as though their crap donít stink? Where exactly is the line drawn?
    Will have to ask Moira, she is the one who is playing god after all with the lives of billions.

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