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  1. #1681
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    What we haven’t gotten is much in the way of humans who are allies, or mutants who are dissenters. But that seems deliberate as a means of helping establish the new status quo.
    100% agreed. In my opinion Hickman is doing a fine job of creating an entirely new, in depth world with just 12 issues. So certain details will indeed be left out as you mention but surely they'll be filled in as we proceed into Dawn of X. That's how I feel about the villains too. I'm not too sure they've just been given amnesty and that's that. We haven't seen Creed since he was escorted off in chains. There's more to come.

  2. #1682
    Amazing Member Bloxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    Found an extremely good, topical thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/excel522/status/...326071296?s=19

    Highly recommend!
    I'm not sure what's good about it.
    Looks like same "you don't like it because its new and weird to you" argument that as far as I'm concerned and nothing but a strawman argument ignoring the actual concerns some of us have.

  3. #1683
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    My concern has always been with that villainous contingent. And i don't mean the "villains because society has taught us to be villains" villains.

    I'm talking bout the jamies, the selenes, the emplates. The sociopathic ones who just went "I like being evil."


    You can talk about the others keeping them in line... but when the first mission we see from this new nation involves Sabertooth just murdering Damage Control members ( It's DAMAGE CONTROL, like come on.)... it doesn't inspire confidence.

  4. #1684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    Found an extremely good, topical thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/excel522/status/...326071296?s=19

    Highly recommend!
    Great stuff here.

  5. #1685
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    I'm not sure what's good about it.
    Looks like same "you don't like it because its new and weird to you" argument that as far as I'm concerned and nothing but a strawman argument ignoring the actual concerns some of us have.
    You're not alone in feeling that way.
    8d75fb4b678773c5620ef8aee22b3acb06f5c0ac_hq.jpg
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    (Please return to the Academy setting before I turn 47...)

  6. #1686
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    My concern has always been with that villainous contingent. And i don't mean the "villains because society has taught us to be villains" villains.

    I'm talking bout the jamies, the selenes, the emplates. The sociopathic ones who just went "I like being evil."


    You can talk about the others keeping them in line... but when the first mission we see from this new nation involves Sabertooth just murdering Damage Control members ( It's DAMAGE CONTROL, like come on.)... it doesn't inspire confidence.
    I'm very curious to see how it plays out with the villains. Hickman knew he was throwing us a major curveball with that scene.

  7. #1687
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    Found an extremely good, topical thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/excel522/status/...326071296?s=19

    Highly recommend!
    This whole thread is great, but this part stood out: "The X-Men have also always been the "good" mutants to the "bad" Brotherhood/Apocalypse/Etc. - they're "one of the good ones! Not like those bad mutants! We're what mutants should be! And this has spilled over into readers - they're able to get behind the X-Men as the "right" way to be mutants. They fight bigots and unaccepting figures - your William Stryker types. And they fight other mutants who don't want to assimilate in this approved way."

    Really good analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Great stuff here.
    Omega, you're back! Welcome!
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  8. #1688
    Incredible Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    I'm not sure what's good about it.
    Looks like same "you don't like it because its new and weird to you" argument that as far as I'm concerned and nothing but a strawman argument ignoring the actual concerns some of us have.
    I can only speak for myself but I understand the concerns. I just think we should let it play out. We know Hickman plays the looooooong game and since he's had a major hand in the building of the upcoming books, this is going to twist and turn and reverse and go left a bunch of times. So we either trust or we don't, but we can only let things play out.

    I haven't seen X-Fandom this energized and engaged in a long time.

  9. #1689
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And there it is. The deepest line in the thread and what victims all buy into no matter the situation. Somehow it's the job of the abused to bring out the good in the abuser, the abused needs to understand. Somehow it's the job of the oppressed to bring out the humanity in humans. Somehow it's the murdered that are suppose to pull out the humanity of the killers, the best in them. And time and time again we buy into. The people extend the olive branch only to get shut down, you make peace with one for two to stab you in the back. Well there has to be a point where a person says "We'll i'm going to sit over here and do me and get my life together, i am praying for the best for you, but it's time for you to bring out your own humanity but i'll be here cheering you on from a safe distance."
    Yeah, it doesn't work here. Cooperation. Tolerance. Acceptance. That's always been cornerstone to the whole concept of the X-Men.
    Literally, they are supposed to fight for a world that hates and fear them in order to achieve Xavier's dream.
    It's their whole premise.
    They are the X-Men. They aren't supposed to collegialy drop the ball regarding Xavier's dream the way they are enthusiastically doing right now. They are not supposed to be reclusive instead of inclusive.
    What you are suggesting go against what makes them THEM. An identity crisis that would make them distinctly unrecognizable. In fact, they already are in parts.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  10. #1690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    That's BS and we all know it, I'm not gonna sit here and blame the Avengers for everything that happened to mutants because the X-Men's own writers won't let them be involved in any meaningful way.
    The "writers" don't actually exist in the fictional context, broski. Unfortunately the story is all you have.

  11. #1691
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Yeah, it doesn't work here. Cooperation. Tolerance. Acceptance. That's always been cornerstone to the whole concept of the X-Men.
    Literally, they are supposed to fight for a world that hates and fear them in order to achieve Xavier's dream.
    It's their whole premise.
    They are the X-Men. They aren't supposed to collegialy drop the ball regarding Xavier's dream the way they are enthusiastically doing right now. They are not supposed to be reclusive instead of inclusive.
    What you are suggesting go against what makes them THEM. An identity crisis that would make them distinctly unrecognizable. In fact, they already are in parts.
    You just want them to go back to being safe for your feelings.

    "Some of my best friends are mutants!"

  12. #1692
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    This whole thread is great, but this part stood out: "The X-Men have also always been the "good" mutants to the "bad" Brotherhood/Apocalypse/Etc. - they're "one of the good ones! Not like those bad mutants! We're what mutants should be! And this has spilled over into readers - they're able to get behind the X-Men as the "right" way to be mutants. They fight bigots and unaccepting figures - your William Stryker types. And they fight other mutants who don't want to assimilate in this approved way."

    Really good analysis.



    Omega, you're back! Welcome!
    That was an interesting thread, but it definitely didn't givw me a negative reaction. It's like the X-men and all the mutants are Black Lives Matter. Or in this case, mutant lives matter. Magneto was right.

  13. #1693
    Amazing Member Bloxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jness View Post
    The "writers" don't actually exist in the fictional context, broski. Unfortunately the story is all you have.
    The fictional context means nothing to me when I know the real reason.
    And when the real reason is the people in charge of the X-Men won't let others get involved so the X-Men look more like victims it doesn't land well with me.
    Last edited by Bloxer; 09-21-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  14. #1694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    The fictional context means nothing to me when I know the real reason.
    Reading fiction must be a weird experience for you. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloxer View Post
    I'm not sure what's good about it.
    Looks like same "you don't like it because its new and weird to you" argument that as far as I'm concerned and nothing but a strawman argument ignoring the actual concerns some of us have.
    The actual concerns being "I'm cool with them being mutants...only I want them to be just like me!" =) I bet you are a closet William Stryker fan
    Last edited by Jness; 09-21-2019 at 06:39 PM.

  15. #1695
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    The XMen spent more time fighting Inhumans, Avengers, Sentinels than than thru do evil Mutants. Mutant villains have not been a thing since the Morrison era.

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