HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[ExodusCloak]

Life 6 already happened it's the story regarding the phalanx and the library it's crossed off cause off as to not to spoil the ending

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Life 6 already happened it's the story regarding the phalanx and the library it's crossed off cause off as to not to spoil the ending

I believe that too.

However i would not put one last rug pull past hickman

[RD155]

3 theories, 2 of which have been alluded to, but haven't gone in the directions I've been thinking about...

1) Mutant backups - As has been stated, backups have been made of the mutants for a while. It was theorized here that perhaps backups can be uploaded to just a point in time and not to "last week". I believe this theory is accurate and helps explain why some characters may be "off" to some of us. The character I'm thinking of is Jean. She's wearing an old costume. In the issue where she and the other members of the strike team die, she does not appear to be the strong bad-ass character we've gotten used to over previous years. I think this is a downloaded version of Jean from before she and the Phoenix made their first acquaintances.

2) I do not believe we are seeing current reality (616 if you will) right now. There's still 3 issues left here. I believe we are seeing Life 6. In this HOX issue, we have seen a radically different mutant strategy than we've ever seen before. I believe that in Wednesday's POX issue, we will see a future, where the flat-scan humans are all dead due to the actions taken by mutants in this issue. This will be seen as less than ideal to Moira as well. Remember, her gut reaction was to develop a cure for the mutants. The only reason we've seen here change course was because of threats from Destiny. As such, it's quite possible that she adheres to the dream and would not like a future where the Mutants survive, but the flat-scans don't.

3) All of this is really just "That Which Endures".

Im not too sure about that theory #2. I feel like Hickman already did that trick with timeline 9 by having us invest in a timeline only to have Moira die and reset. I originally thought that timeline 10 this was all going to end in another reset setting up Dawn of X as the 11th life. However the more time that passes and especially after the recent events this is seeming like the new status quo for the X-men. I think the 616 as we know it is just bits and pieces of every timeline. I’m not really sure there is one “set” 616 timeline anymore.

[JB]

We've had over 100 pages of reasonable discussion. This has turned into a cyclical argument where both sides can agree to disagree.

This makes the most sense to me as we've reached a stalemate.

But I would be curious to know what people, specifically those that are opposed to what we're currently reading, would suggest to be a better way for Charles and the mutants to be handling this. We know mutants get exterminated every life Moira has lived and that a fanatic group of humans have built a machine that creates machines that create more machines to end the mutants. What do you think is a better way? Now just keep in mind, we're trying to reinvent the X-Men and return them to the comic book glory they deserve so it's best we not do the same thing we've done for decades.

Or we can just continue discussing what we're seeing on the pages and agree to disagree on how we feel about it.

[RD155]

Life 6 already happened it's the story regarding the phalanx and the library it's crossed off cause off as to not to spoil the ending

I think that’s a bit too obvious. Granted of course it’s a possibility no doubt......but I’m hoping for something a bit more epic then timeline 6 just being the phalanx. Hoping Hickman has one more trick up his sleeve.

[JB]

I think that’s a bit too obvious. Granted of course it’s a possibility no doubt......but I’m hoping for something a bit more epic then timeline 6 just being the phalanx. Hoping Hickman has one more trick up his sleeve.

He's probably got a few tricks left to knock us over the heads with. Three more issues and the way he's been packing each issue with so much info, we have a lot coming our way.

[ExodusCloak]

I think that’s a bit too obvious. Granted of course it’s a possibility no doubt......but I’m hoping for something a bit more epic then timeline 6 just being the phalanx. Hoping Hickman has one more trick up his sleeve.

Well 6 comes before 10.

[Su_Whisterfield]

3 theories, 2 of which have been alluded to, but haven't gone in the directions I've been thinking about...

1) Mutant backups - As has been stated, backups have been made of the mutants for a while. It was theorized here that perhaps backups can be uploaded to just a point in time and not to "last week". I believe this theory is accurate and helps explain why some characters may be "off" to some of us. The character I'm thinking of is Jean. She's wearing an old costume. In the issue where she and the other members of the strike team die, she does not appear to be the strong bad-ass character we've gotten used to over previous years. I think this is a downloaded version of Jean from before she and the Phoenix made their first acquaintances.

2) I do not believe we are seeing current reality (616 if you will) right now. There's still 3 issues left here. I believe we are seeing Life 6. In this HOX issue, we have seen a radically different mutant strategy than we've ever seen before. I believe that in Wednesday's POX issue, we will see a future, where the flat-scan humans are all dead due to the actions taken by mutants in this issue. This will be seen as less than ideal to Moira as well. Remember, her gut reaction was to develop a cure for the mutants. The only reason we've seen here change course was because of threats from Destiny. As such, it's quite possible that she adheres to the dream and would not like a future where the Mutants survive, but the flat-scans don't.

3) All of this is really just "That Which Endures".

Re Mutant Backups -it ain’t just Jean. Kurt is wearing his original 1975 costume, with only the addition of a hand and half sword, which is interestingly, completely different to his usual choice of sword or swords. And, particularly around Scott, seems to have reverted to his old mascot/team pet crouch.

[RD155]

This makes the most sense to me as we've reached a stalemate.

But I would be curious to know what people, specifically those that are opposed to what we're currently reading, would suggest to be a better way for Charles and the mutants to be handling this. We know mutants get exterminated every life Moira has lived and that a fanatic group of humans have built a machine that creates machines that create more machines to end the mutants. What do you think is a better way? Now just keep in mind, we're trying to reinvent the X-Men and return them to the comic book glory they deserve so it's best we not do the same thing we've done for decades.

Or we can just continue discussing what we're seeing on the pages and agree to disagree on how we feel about it.

Personally I feel Hickman wants people to be a bit opposed to what the X-men are currently doing. They’ve crossed some lines and are tip toeing that line between good and evil. Granted at this stage in the game there pretty much is no right or wrong. It pretty much just depends on who’s side you’re on. Some mornings I feel the mutants are right and some days I can see the why some people view the humans as victims in this story. I actually think that’s one of the strengths of this story and that’s the point of view Hickman was searching for.

There’s no way around the fact that Xavier has done some shady things and this isn’t the same “Saturday morning” X-men we grew up on. The rules of engagement have definitely changed...

[JB]

Personally I feel Hickman wants people to be a bit opposed to what the X-men are currently doing. They’ve crossed some lines and are tip toeing that line between good and evil. Granted at this stage in the game there pretty much is no right or wrong. It pretty much just depends on who’s side you’re on. Some mornings I feel the mutants are right and some days I can see the why some people view the humans as victims in this story. I actually think that’s one of the strengths of this story and that’s the point of view Hickman was searching for.

There’s no way around the fact that Xavier has done some shady things and this isn’t the same “Saturday morning” X-men we grew up on. The rules of engagement have definitely changed...

Very well said. It certainly is one of the strengths of this story. Hickman has us passionate about these characters again.

[Devaishwarya]

There’s no one around the fact that Xavier has done some shady things and this isn’t the same “Saturday morning” X-men we grew up on. The rules of engagement have definitely changed...

This fact is what seems to have gone clear over the head(s) of some.
And, I suppose, what they're finding terribly difficult to come to terms and deal with.
And that's okies...just don't start attacking others because we think and feel and believe different.
(I've sat through the X-Men being humanity's punching bag from the mid-80's to 2019...I welcome this new direction, these new rules of engagement).

"Krakoa, FOREVER!!!"

[RD155]

There’s no one around the fact that Xavier has done some shady things and this isn’t the same “Saturday morning” X-men we grew up on. The rules of engagement have definitely changed...

This fact is what seems to have gone clear over the head(s) of some.
And, I suppose, what they're finding terribly difficult to come to terms and deal with.
And that's okies...just don't start attacking others because we think and feel and believe different.
(I've sat through the X-Men being humanity's punching bag from the mid-80's to 2019...I welcome this new direction, these new rules of engagement).

"Krakoa, FOREVER!!!"

Like I mentioned in my post I’m a bit torn. I understand and can kind of sympathize/agree with every side of this. Moira and Xavier have explored various options to preserve mutant life. Every single outcome results in essentially the same thing. Of course desperation has set in and I don’t necessarily fault Xavier for these extreme measures. For some fans though it might be difficult to read because of the “morally wrong” aspect of his actions and I totally respect that. Some people will have a hard time digesting that our “supposed” heroes of the story are doing some questionable things. That’s fine as well and like I’ve said before, I feel that’s what Hickman wants.

It just amazes me how people are so quick to attack someone’s opinion in regards to saying that mutants aren't necessarily the clear cut good guys of this story....

[ComeOnBunny]

Like I mentioned in my post I’m a bit torn. I understand and can kind of sympathize/agree with every side of this. Moira and Xavier have explored various options to preserve mutant life. Every single outcome results in essentially the same thing. Of course desperation has set in and I don’t necessarily fault Xavier for these extreme measures. For some fans though it might be difficult to read because of the “morally wrong” aspect of his actions and I totally respect that. Some people will have a hard time digesting that our “supposed” heroes of the story are doing some questionable things. That’s fine as well and like I’ve said before, I feel that’s what Hickman wants.

It just amazes me how people are so quick to attack someone’s opinion in regards to saying that mutants aren't necessarily the clear cut good guys of this story....

I think, right and wrong are just words that don't actually mean much, I use them too out of convenience but I don't actually think they matter. Instead of asking myself if what they are doing is right or wrong I ask myself what is most important to them. I think that their family, living and thriving is now most important to them so I can understand why they came to this point. Before placating humans was most important to them but it has been shown Mutants will go extinct before that ever humans.

[TOTALITY]

3 theories, 2 of which have been alluded to, but haven't gone in the directions I've been thinking about...

1) Mutant backups - As has been stated, backups have been made of the mutants for a while. It was theorized here that perhaps backups can be uploaded to just a point in time and not to "last week". I believe this theory is accurate and helps explain why some characters may be "off" to some of us. The character I'm thinking of is Jean. She's wearing an old costume. In the issue where she and the other members of the strike team die, she does not appear to be the strong bad-ass character we've gotten used to over previous years. I think this is a downloaded version of Jean from before she and the Phoenix made their first acquaintances.

2) I do not believe we are seeing current reality (616 if you will) right now. There's still 3 issues left here. I believe we are seeing Life 6. In this HOX issue, we have seen a radically different mutant strategy than we've ever seen before. I believe that in Wednesday's POX issue, we will see a future, where the flat-scan humans are all dead due to the actions taken by mutants in this issue. This will be seen as less than ideal to Moira as well. Remember, her gut reaction was to develop a cure for the mutants. The only reason we've seen here change course was because of threats from Destiny. As such, it's quite possible that she adheres to the dream and would not like a future where the Mutants survive, but the flat-scans don't.

3) All of this is really just "That Which Endures".

1) I really think Hickman is just writing Jean differently than Taylor did in Red. It happens, and 99.99% of the time it’s just a different writer highlighting different aspects of a character. I understand the temptation when backup psyches are *right there* but I really can’t imagine what it would serve to have that be a twist, other than to explain her putting on a different outfit and some characterization some people are having trouble with. It seems like it would just be unnecessarily complicated to write characters with specific portions of their history omitted, and also puncture the sense that these resurrections are legitimate and complete, which seems like the opposite of what Hickman is doing now. Also, Jean’s interaction with Storm in the newest issue had them referencing an exchange in Inferno, so she would seem to have her memories at least up to that point.

2) No! Even the theories that life 11 will be 616 are silly I think, but for everything we’ve seen to be life 6 makes zero sense in any way. Nothing we’ve seen of lives 7-9 makes sense following this status quo, and the information she receives at the end of life 9 directly sets up the assault on the Orchis base in HOX 3-4.

[The Thunderbird]

Personally I feel Hickman wants people to be a bit opposed to what the X-men are currently doing. They’ve crossed some lines and are tip toeing that line between good and evil. Granted at this stage in the game there pretty much is no right or wrong. It pretty much just depends on who’s side you’re on. Some mornings I feel the mutants are right and some days I can see the why some people view the humans as victims in this story. I actually think that’s one of the strengths of this story and that’s the point of view Hickman was searching for.

There’s no way around the fact that Xavier has done some shady things and this isn’t the same “Saturday morning” X-men we grew up on. The rules of engagement have definitely changed...

Agreed. Sometimes, I think that the Krakoa concept has good intentions and have benign purposes. Mutants should definitely have a sanctuary safe from hostile forces. Other times, I think the means and rituals as well as what Moira, Magneto, and Xavier implied about mutants taking their rightful place is unsettling and can have disastrous consequences such as making humanity hate them even more or lead to escalating abuses of power.