HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Hulkout42]

Well it mostly comes from Moira living so many lives and the humans exterminating the mutants seemingly every time. But you're right in that it's not all humans, but the mutants have to rally and bring their people in so they can then strategize from there. They're not saying "kill all the humans" or "treat humans like trash". They're offering life-extending, life-saving medicine to the humans. Clearly they're fine with humans sticking around. :-)

I was on board with that right up until this issue that has mass murderers like Sinister, Apocalypse and Selene bend knee to Xavier and Lensherr (again why are the Morlocks bunched in with the villains is beyond me). I mean call me crazy but there is no way that will end well at all.

[Kurolegacy]

The XMen are the ultimate survivors. The Avengers are the popular government sponsored heroes,

That conceptually puts them far apart.

They cannot be friends.

That is literally some of the most broken logic I’ve seen yet. Firstly, the Avengers more often than not are privately funded. It’s a rare occasion that the government funds them. Hell at the moment, the US government hates them because Black Panther is the chairman. Second, they’re heroes who protect the world. Only times they’re at odds is when just what they’re protecting doesn’t mesh. There is no reason beyond dumb fandom rivalries that writers seem to love stroking that they would be against one another and even then, the majority of the time, they are allies.

[ExodusCloak]

The Mastermind sisters just want their dad back thats why they worked with the Red Queen as she promised to ressurect him. So they are also easy to control

Hickman has developed the ultimate toy box. He can use anyone

[Snoop Dogg]

Gonna be hella awkward when Pooky's OG Horsemen come back to find him hanging around with some white people and dating a like 21-ish year old.

[Bloxer]

Why can't the X-Men have a nation and still help the Earth? The X-Men are going to the Savage Land in December to stop a world threat before it can attack the other nations of the world. Why can't the X-Men be a nation like Wakanda?

So far they have simply granted their villains amnesty, that does not mean they agree with those villains, they are saying "Hey all these years a lot of you were fighting with us and humans to establish a mutant nation, well we have a nation now, and as long as you abide by the laws of our country we will pardon your past crimes and give you citizenship."

That does not mean everyone gets a blanket get out of jail free card, it means everyone gets to start as a citizen of Krakoa with a clean slate. Xavier and Magneto are probably anticipating between 50% and 70% of the villains will become productive peaceful citizens, and then you have the 30% to 50% who are going to commit crimes on Krakoa or try to attack the humans from Krakoa. Krakoa has international obligations now to maintain their treaties with so many countries and to maintain their seat on the United Nations, they have to abide by international laws just like any other country. Krakoa doesn't want to be sanctioned, they want to keep the trade flowing so they can buy the goods they need for their own country and people.

Keeping humans out is a security precaution more than anything, you can never know if some human is going to bring in a bomb, a nanite weapon, or even some kind of transport device to allow Sentinels to arrive on the island. After years of human governments making repeated efforts to exterminate or enslave the mutant race they are being very careful now that they have a country. Just because you have trade agreements and you yourself intend to act in good faith doesn't mean that the other governments will, and this has already been proven with the Orchis facility which was receiving funding from government organizations and business interests with the intention of deploying the manufactured Master Molds into Krakoa and letting them decimate the mutants, or enslave the ones they want to keep for experimentation.

In every possible future Moira has seen so far the humans manufacture Sentinels to wipe out the mutant race. Every possible future!

Does Magneto and Xavier have a hidden agenda, probably, I don't trust the man with the Cerebro helmet on 24/7 any further than I can throw him. That doesn't mean that agenda is war with the humans though, it could mean they intend to colonize the Moon and Mars before the humans can stop them. With colonies off world they can move their entire nation off planet. Are they going to make overtures to the Shi'ar for a peace, trade, and mutual defense pact, there is a good chance they might do that too. The agenda is to aggressively defend their right to have a nation in the first place and they are moving as fast as they can to solidify their defences before one of the human governments sends Sentinels to attack them.

I get it, people want the X-Men to live in Massachusetts and answer "Yes Master!" whenever the human government agents come to their home and surround it with Sentinels. Bend a knee to the humans and show that you are a good obedient mutant who will do what you are told. This is what happened to Rachel, they wanted to dehumanize her so much that they turned Rachel and the other captured mutant children from her world into DOGS! Ahab got a sadistic pleasure out of torturing and brainwashing mutants to be like that, he paraded Rachel around on a leash because it gave him pleasure to do so, and the American government of her world was all on board for treating mutants that way. As far as the humans of Rachel's world were concerned mutants were nothing more than animals that should be rounded up and either imprisoned, killed, used for experimentation, or turned into slaves for the Regime!

For the last few years we have been coming to a breaking point, how can you be heroes for a world that doesn't just want to oppress you, they want to kill your entire race. How do you stand by and watch the US Government imprison 1000's of Mutants. Before Decimation, in X-Men Blue, Magneto found out that the US Government was rounding up mutant children into containment centres and using them for experimentation and trying to find a way to strip them all of their powers, or kill them. This is just one step before you hire someone like Dr Rory Campbell to come in and see if it's possible to brainwash mutants to be obedient slaves for their human masters.

I can't believe I even have to type this stuff. I imagine that some bad things are going to happen, a lot of countries make mistakes when they are establishing them. They might even accidentally start a war. But after all the genocide the humans have inflicted on mutants what do you expect them to do, bend over and take it in the ass?

I am 100% not reading all that, but I'll respond to the bits that don't look long winded.
Can mutants have a nation of their own?
Sure, I don't care about that, what I do care about is the fact the place looks and operates like a creepy effing cult, where mutants are trying to pretend like they're superior to humans like they don't feel fear, hate, and act irrationally because of those feeling, like mutants are trying to pretend all negative qualities and and things are exclusive to humans, like they didn't evolve from the same cavemen who were spent their time beating rocks together.
When mutants have killed each other, massacred each other and have tried to wipe each other out without human involvement I'm not interested in hearing that the mutants are superior and can do no wrong because its not true and we all know it.

[JB]

I was on board with that right up until this issue that has mass murderers like Sinister, Apocalypse and Selene bend knee to Xavier and Lensherr (again why are the Morlocks bunched in with the villains is beyond me). I mean call me crazy but there is no way that will end well at all.

I agree, I don't think it will end well with regards to some of them. Yes some villains are on other book's rosters but I'm sure some of these baddies are going to cause trouble. If they're bending the knee, I'm sure it's for show where some of them are concerned.

[Hulkout42]

No they aren't.
The concept of the Avengers are to be the Earth's mightiest heroes, the best heroes teaming to ensure the safely of earth, The concept of the X-Men were to be Earth's strangest heroes, heroes of a world that feared them, there's nothing about these concepts that mean they can't be friends, that they can't work together for the greater good.
There's nothing more than editorial mandates that keeps the Avengers from helping out the X-Men with their problems and vice versa.

Kind of makes you wonder what happens with X-men that were a part of the Avengers.
I mean was the mutual respect between Rogers/Romanoff and Logan no longer there? The long-lasting friendship between Simon and Hank forgotten? Spider-man's comraderie with Iceman, Wolverine and Hope meaningless?
I know the X-fan base wont give a **** about this but i know some people will.

[People Of The Earth]

That is not isolationist, Kravita Roa can't walk on the island without a purpose to be there and someone allowing her on. And ignoring the why it is to try setting them as being an isolationist country is kinda funny. Humans just finished trying to sterilize mutants out of existence. As with any country you do a messed up thing and people access get restricted,at different points of conflicts in the middle east the US had bans on people entering the US from those countries.

Xavier is reaching to do trade with multiple countries that is not a mark of an isolationist country, The comparison of North Korea doing trade China is not an accurate comparison. That is mutants putting themselves out to be a part of the world. Krakoa isn't meant to be mutants permanent place to live. Krakoa is a safe haven created because humanity has been dicks to mutants. You can clearly see the point of Krakoa is to expand they plan to bring back every mutant and there is no way the island can hold all of them and future generations. The habitats are clearly where first of communities of mutants expanding out. Peaceful coexistence is clearly the plan. It just that mutants have smartly decided to stop letting humans kill them and have a safe place to live.

Why do you downplay what Magneto stated to the UN representatives? Sapiens aren't allowed on the main island as of now. That's it. You are the one arguing such a stance is justified. That's great but I'm not arguing about whether or not it's justified here - I'm pointing out that by nature such a measure is not coexistence-friendly, but isolationist, which was the initial topic I had with that other poster.
Another thing is, trade and isolationism aren't mutually exclusive.
Many countries have voluntarily insulated themselves from foreign influence while trading and making business with other nations. Krakoa jockeying for economical gain and securing their sovereignty, whilst insulating their land from foreigners is similar to what NK is currently doing. Of course it's not accurate, I'm pointing the parallels existing here, not saying they are a 1:1 representation.
Also, saying that "peaceful coexistence is clearly the plan" when Magneto is your ambassador and other mutants mass murderers have blanket amnesty is pretty bold. I know why Krakoa was created, thanks, I still don't see how coexistence fit into that set-up. Are habitats destined to harbour a mix of mutants and sapiens populations? So far, it's hinted that sapiens will only be tolerated in habitats, pending mutant escort and approval. Habitats are supposed to be living places or refuges for mutants.

[JB]

Kind of makes you wonder what happens with X-men that were a part of the Avengers.
I mean was the mutual respect between Rogers/Romanoff and Logan no longer there? The long-lasting friendship between Simon and Hank forgotten? Spider-man's comraderie with Iceman, Wolverine and Hope meaningless?
I know the X-fan base wont give a **** about this but i know some people will.

But why would these things go away? Because the mutants have their own recognized nation? I'm not following.

I can totally see Natasha saying she's going on vacation and Rogue escorting her to Krakoa so they can chill on the beach.

Screenshot 2019-09-21 19.45.10.jpg

[The tall man]

I find it interesting that in all of Moira's past lives not one had mutants survive or emerge as the dominant force, such as the AOA and House of M realities. Maybe the redacted life #6 will show mutants triumphant. But isn't all this Krakoa nation building moot anyway, because if the future shown POX is to be believed then Krakoa fails and mutants are on the verge of being wiped out.

[ExodusCloak]

Is the life with North not life 9? So this is the life 10. I'm assuming the life with the Phalanx is life 6

[useridgoeshere]

I was on board with that right up until this issue that has mass murderers like Sinister, Apocalypse and Selene bend knee to Xavier and Lensherr (again why are the Morlocks bunched in with the villains is beyond me). I mean call me crazy but there is no way that will end well at all.

Oh, I don’t think this will end well, either. As much as I like it so far, there needs to be tension and things need to blow up. There are a ton of seeds for future drama. And in the end, no one at Marvel can ever really create a series from a mutant-normative POV. We already see how much fan backlash you would get.

[Huntsman Spider]

Kind of makes you wonder what happens with X-men that were a part of the Avengers.
I mean was the mutual respect between Rogers/Romanoff and Logan no longer there? The long-lasting friendship between Simon and Hank forgotten? Spider-man's comraderie with Iceman, Wolverine and Hope meaningless?
I know the X-fan base wont give a **** about this but i know some people will.

It's meaningless in the sense that all those ties the X-Men had with nonmutant heroes didn't provide an impetus for those nonmutant heroes, Avengers or not, to lend a hand or raise their voices in protest of the U.S. government repeatedly attempting to violently repress, if not flat-out exterminate, all mutants, including the ones the Avengers and their ilk knew as fellow heroes. They could go to war with each other and the U.S. government over their right to not have to register with said government for the fully rational fear that the government would use them as super-soldiers, superspies, and/or super-assassins for shady causes and agendas, but they somehow couldn't connect or relate that with the government registering mutants to make it easier to repress and exterminate them all. I mean, really, the nonmutant heroes have seen time and again that it wouldn't take all that much for the government and the public to turn against them and treat them the same as mutants have been all these years, so at least for the sake of their own continued survival, maybe they should reconsider their own allegiances.

Then again, there is a more fundamental disconnect between the X-Men and the rest of the Marvel superheroes. The rest of the Marvel superheroes labor under the delusion that the status quo, while imperfect and flawed, is nonetheless worth preserving for the sake of the public's welfare, even when that public isn't always (or often) grateful for their presence or actions. The X-Men labor under the reality that the status quo is fundamentally inimical to their right to survive, let alone thrive, that humanity as a whole is irrevocably and incorrigibly opposed to their continued existence, and that they are completely and utterly on their own. In the face of that reality, is there anything for them worth trying to defend or uphold or preserve?

[Hulkout42]

But why would these things go away? Because the mutants have their own recognized nation? I'm not following.

I can totally see Natasha saying she's going on vacation and Rogue escorting her to Krakoa so they can chill on the beach.

Screenshot 2019-09-21 19.45.10.jpg

From the comments going on the Avengers are no friends of the X-men apperantly.

[Huntsman Spider]

From the comments going on the Avengers are no friends of the X-men apperantly.

If they're going to stand by and do nothing in the face of continued mutant oppression and attempts at genocide against mutants by the U.S. government and other authorities, then they're crummy friends.