HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Frobisher]

Isn't Atlantis often portrayed as antagonists? Atlantis Attacks. Flooding Wakanda. Pretty much every fight Namor picks with everyone else.

Namor is awesome though. Objection overruled.

[RachelGrey]

Get 'em.
Its very true, when real change comes along some cannot take it.

You see this with Jane Foster, Carol Danvers, and even Storm, Jean, and Emma too! Whenever the female characters get any kind of spotlight it's almost like the entire world has come to an end. I knew all along that Jane Foster Thor was not going to be indefinite, it was a story the writers wanted to tell and there was going to be a beginning, middle, and end. They made it quite clear she was dying of cancer and the more she used the power of Thor (which reversed her chemo) the more sick she was becoming. It was inevitable that it would end, and it was an interesting story to tell. Sure the whole reason Thor became unworthy was kind of silly and they could have probably did that better, but at the same time I really loved seeing Jane be Thor for a while and the story was well written and in a lot cases the art was fantastic too. Carol becoming Captain Marvel, to me that was a natural progression, she was Ms Marvel for a long time, she has a strong military background, to me there was no issue with her taking that name.

The X-Ladies deserve every spotlight they get, they are great dynamic characters, some of the best characters in Marvel. I love X-Men mostly for the female characters. My top 5 to this day are Rachel, Jean, Emma, Storm, and Kitty. I started getting into comics back when Excalibur came out, and I read Excalibur because I wanted to read about Rachel and Kitty, and I kept waiting for them to finally admit their love for each other and get married too, but I guess we don't always get what we wished for...

I remember when the outback years, and that was so different than what the X-Men had done before, I loved the interesting character dynamics that came out with Storm, Betsy, Allison, Logan, Alex, Madelyne, Colosus, and later Jubilee. It was interesting, it was a change in the way the X-Men operated, and they had fun from time to time, they had a home where they could actually have some peace and fun from time to time. Eventually it came crashing down and changed again and it lead to one of the best storylines going into Genosha that brought the remnants of the X-Men, X-Force, X-Factor, and Excalibur all together to try and get free of the Genoshan government.

I loved when they formed Utopia, it was a big change, a new direction. Scott, Logan, Emma, and Storm trying to find the middle way between Xavier and Magneto, and it was a fantastic new direction for things.

Every time they return to the school I find it a little strange. I thought it was great that Scott, Emma, Illyana, and Magneto built their new school in Canada and got it out of the US. It was admitting in the comics that the US was so anti-mutant that it was much safer to rescue the kids and bring them to Canada because they would be safer there.

[Glio]

I'm pretty sure you can't enter Wakanda without supervision and nobody says that Black Panther is a villain. Hell, they even have medicine at Krakoa's level and decide not to share it with the rest of the humans.

[cranger]

I'm pretty sure you can't enter Wakanda without supervision and nobody says that Black Panther is a villain. Hell, they even have medicine at Krakoa's level and decide not to share it with the rest of the humans.

Have you talked to Namor fans? And there are definitely people who are critical of (modern) depictions of Wakanda with them withholding the cure for cancer at or near the top of list of things that make them questionable.

[chief12d]

I'm pretty sure you can't enter Wakanda without supervision and nobody says that Black Panther is a villain. Hell, they even have medicine at Krakoa's level and decide not to share it with the rest of the humans.

To be fair we don’t know if that’s entirely the case. “THEY DO NOT NEED MUTANT DRUGS” could just as easily be a reflection of the bias the X-Men have against T’Challa for rejecting their offer. We saw how they put Franklin’s allegiance as “HUMANS” in a previous issue, rather than an actual country so it’s possible there’s a bit of salt behind that statement.

My head cannon is that Wakanda doesn’t have the same drugs but still turned down the offer because of how shady things are with the mutants atm. But Wakanda does have a history of withholding life-saving medicine so this could also be another instance of that.

And the idea that Krakoa is evil for not allowing people to just wander in is kinda weird. There’s definitely some cultish stuff going on there but maintaining basic borders is not one of them.

[H-E-D]

Namor is awesome though. Objection overruled.

If Xavier and Mags were going around shirtless with chocolate abs, nobody would be complaining about Krakoa.

[Snoop Dogg]

Professor Xavier's wall is a monument to division that was only created to rile up his base. The holy temple of his anti-technology rhetoric that discriminates against gamers. And why don't his constituents mind that their tax dollars went into it when X said Madripoor would pay?

[JKtheMac]

This is not a battle or competition so there is no "stalemate".
Here's the thing...I am fully enjoying the story for personal reasons and I honestly don't care that some complete stranger isnt enjoying because of their personal reasons. I am not trying to convince them of anything because I am only invested in the story I'm reading, not that stranger. At the end of the day, our discussions/arguments here are pretty much irrelevant because it changes nothing pertaining to the books we're reading. (Yes, on very rare occasions we do succeed in enlightening a 'closed' mind, open a new way of seeing and thinking for a few but really...all this back and forth, while thoroughly entertaining and time consuming...its true purpose...is quite pointless in a greater scheme).

Debating on forums is mostly away of “passing the time” shocker.

[RachelGrey]

Debating on forums is mostly away of “passing the time” shocker.

There are parts of the discussion I like, I really love the speculation about the future of the X-Men going forward and how much this status quo makes me happy that the X-Men finally have a true home that can't be easily taken from them. They are in an independent country, SHIELD, the Avengers, or any of the other agencies of various world governments cannot just show up in Krakoa with Sentinels and bulldozers because that would be a true act of war with a nation recognized by the United Nations. The Krakoan government is perfectly within their rights to destroy any Helicarrier that tries to enter their air space without permission. If a nation tries to blockade them without approval from the United Nations, the Krakoan government is allowed to defend their border. They are allowed to build the most advanced missile defense system in the world that can repel Sentinels, nuclear bombs, and anything else the human nations try to throw at them. They are allowed to defend their country. They are allowed to capture and detain any hostile combatants that enter the nation of Krakoa. If the Avengers come into Krakoa without authorization they can be captured and detained. Humans who commit war crimes can be put on publicized trial in Krakoa and tried with those war crimes under the Geneva Convention. No more ONE showing up at the door and thinking they have the right to detain everyone for being a mutant, if they show up at Krakoa every member of the ONE can be captured and tried for attempting to start a war with the nation of Krakoa.

I love this because even if there are some things that are questionable that will probably be addressed later, the mutants having a nation changes the game for the entire 616 Earth. If you show up at Krakoa looking for a fight now, you have to be prepared that you are declaring war against an independent nation and that nation can strike back in reprisal if you attack their citizens. If you bring a submarine in range of their territory and fire a missile at Krakoa, they have every right to destroy your submarine, confiscate any weapons on board, and detain every member of the crew.

[RD155]

There are parts of the discussion I like, I really love the speculation about the future of the X-Men going forward and how much this status quo makes me happy that the X-Men finally have a true home that can't be easily taken from them. They are in an independent country, SHIELD, the Avengers, or any of the other agencies of various world governments cannot just show up in Krakoa with Sentinels and bulldozers because that would be a true act of war with a nation recognized by the United Nations. The Krakoan government is perfectly within their rights to destroy any Helicarrier that tries to enter their air space without permission. If a nation tries to blockade them without approval from the United Nations, the Krakoan government is allowed to defend their border. They are allowed to build the most advanced missile defense system in the world that can repel Sentinels, nuclear bombs, and anything else the human nations try to throw at them. They are allowed to defend their country. They are allowed to capture and detain any hostile combatants that enter the nation of Krakoa. If the Avengers come into Krakoa without authorization they can be captured and detained. Humans who commit war crimes can be put on publicized trial in Krakoa and tried with those war crimes under the Geneva Convention. No more ONE showing up at the door and thinking they have the right to detain everyone for being a mutant, if they show up at Krakoa every member of the ONE can be captured and tried for attempting to start a war with the nation of Krakoa.

I love this because even if there are some things that are questionable that will probably be addressed later, the mutants having a nation changes the game for the entire 616 Earth. If you show up at Krakoa looking for a fight now, you have to be prepared that you are declaring war against an independent nation and that nation can strike back in reprisal if you attack their citizens. If you bring a submarine in range of their territory and fire a missile at Krakoa, they have every right to destroy your submarine, confiscate any weapons on board, and detain every member of the crew.

This is one of the more interesting aspects of Hickman’s entire story. This new status quo has the potential to really shake things up. He already planted the seeds in the first issue with the scene with the F4. Obviously I don’t think Hickman would just throw that out there without any follow up. This entire situation has Franklin stuck in the middle and would love to see that explored further. Marvel at times seems to prefer their characters just playing in their own individual little sand boxes. I’m hoping that’s not the case here and this spreads through out the Marvel universe

[RachelGrey]

This is one of the more interesting aspects of Hickman’s entire story. This new status quo has the potential to really shake things up. He already planted the seeds in the first issue with the scene with the F4. Obviously I don’t think Hickman would just throw that out there without any follow up. This entire situation has Franklin stuck in the middle and would love to see that explored further. Marvel at times seems to prefer their characters just playing in their own individual little sand boxes. I’m hoping that’s not the case here and this spreads through out the Marvel universe

They might even explore it from Franklin's parents, he has been chafing a bit lately and might actually like the idea of going someplace where he can find his own path away from his parents. It would be interesting if Franklin freely chose to visit Krakoa on his own in a break with his parents. They could even paint any conflict/argument as a misunderstanding because Franklin didn't tell his parents that he wanted to go visit the island and see what it was like there.

[Bloxer]

That's just a nonanswer.
Or you certainly didn't read the thing you typed

[RachelGrey]

That's just a nonanswer.
Or you certainly didn't read the thing you typed

Can I ask why you are so angry? So what if some of us disagree with you. I respect that you have a differing opinion about things and it's perfectly ok, and I know you are not alone in your frustration about new direction. Sorry if I am poking my nose in needlessly, I just feel that there is no need for any of us to get so angry. I kind of got a little annoyed a couple of days ago but I took a break for a bit to cool down because in the end it's just a fictional story, the fact that it is inspiring so much discussion for all of us means it's actually a pretty well written story. I wonder if Watchmen inspired this much discussion when it came out. That was one of the most politically constructed comics of it's time and I can't help comparing HoX/PoX to it a little bit in the amount of discussion this new story by Hickman is inspiring.

Anyway, even though I disagree on interpretation, your thoughts on the story are just as valid as mine so I hope you don't feel like we are attacking your right to post here. You have every right to be part of this discussion and I respect your right to express your opinion and interpretation of the story.

[Bloxer]

Despite what Avatar is I'm not angry, but I don't mince words and I'll be blunt when I see fit.
If someone tells me that everyone with complaints about this story are both calling it trash and saying that they're blinded by nostalgia, hate change and are not actually X-Men fans while claiming saying something like that isn't taking shot at people when it blatantly is that's when I'm gonna be as blunt as possible because that's all it deserves.

[RachelGrey]

Despite what Avatar is I'm not angry, but I don't mince words and I'll be blunt when I see fit.
If someone tells me that everyone with complaints about this story are both calling it trash and saying that they're blinded by nostalgia, hate change and are not actually X-Men fans while claiming saying something like that isn't taking shot at people when it blatantly is that's when I'm gonna be as blunt as possible because that's all it deserves.

I think the way this story is inspiring so much discussion on the forum is just a mark of it being a good story. It's inspiring all of us to discuss the nuances of what we see.
Are the X-Men losing their way?
Is this the only direction the could go through natural story progression?
Are they going too far?
Are they going far enough?

So many different ways of seeing it. I love the new direction myself, but I can understand why some people find it disturbing and a departure from the X-Men that they know and respect. It may even play out this way in the comics too, with some allies perfectly ok with the way the X-Men are forming their nation, and others finding it disturbing and threatening. In the end it will be exciting and fun to see where it all goes from here.