HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Wild Fang X]

I feel there's a big difference between complaining about change in the status quo and complaining about the X-Men are now acting like a weird sex cult with villains with varying degrees of psychopath and depravity.

Hold your horses, partner. Sex cults, villainy, psychopathy and some good ol' fashioned depravity are the building blocks of Western society. I'm down for a smashing good time!

[Frobisher]

Is that supposed to make non-Christians like me feel better? It doesn’t.

Not really. Just pointing out that we often hold cults to a higher level of scrutiny than societal constructs and customs that are just as bizarre when you get into them, simply because the cult has only been around for years instead of centuries.

[JKtheMac]

Not really. Just pointing out that we often hold cults to a higher level of scrutiny than societal constructs and customs that are just as bizarre when you get into them, simply because the cult has only been around for years instead of centuries.

I know. What about those Zoroastrians... Am I right!

[Frobisher]

I know. What about those Zoroastrians... Am I right!

Everything I know about Zoroastrianism is that Freddie Mercury was one, but I sure admire their moustaches and penchant for wearing colourful catsuits.

[Wolverine12]

Actually the appropriate way to deal with that is to block the person annoying you don’t you think?

The appropriate way is to not lump entire sections of people together. Any time someone types "fans" with quotations marks it's sending a clear message. You're all entitled and welcome to your opinion on the story but don't be rude.

Side note: this isn't a shot at you JK, your post just happens to be a good springboard for the message.

[RachelGrey]

Hold your horses, partner. Sex cults, villainy, psychopathy and some good ol' fashioned depravity are the building blocks of Western society. I'm down for a smashing good time!

omg, I am so with you for that. That actually sounds like fun!! I want to go to Krakoa even more now!

[Wild Fang X]

So, the real question is whether or not Krakoa will be undone do to infighting among leadership. Going from Charles' quote regarding Sinister and the amount of influential villains in the ranks (Apocalypse, Sinister, Selene), I definitely see the stage being set for a power struggle of some kind.

[Wild Fang X]

omg, I am so with you for that. That actually sounds like fun!! I want to go to Krakoa even more now!

I always knew you were fun.

[Tycon]

All that pretty irrelevant, and it doesn't help your point that most of the stuff you're talking about were ill-conceived and badly executed, Laura becoming Wolverine is the only thing on that list that actually worked out in my opinion and I haven't read A-Force so I won't comment on it.
But here's the thing so far every complaint I have about this story isn't that's new and changing, in fact, no complaint I've seen about this story is because it's new changing things, most of the complaints I've seen are about the creepy cult-like behavior the X-Men are exhibiting, the shady stuff they're doing, the total amnesty they're giving to people like Apocalypse, and the fact suddenly everyone's attitude and behavior towards humans reads like it came from a revenge fic.
So saying the complaints are coming from people who don't like change is inaccurate and sounds like the response of someone who isn't actually listening to the complaints, to begin with and is generalizing the people who have them.

You mean like how Jean and Scott were worried for the safety of the scientists onboard the ORCHIS station? Or how Kurt still held out a helping hand to Karima and spared the people he had to confront? Or how we haven’t even seen what most of the mutants think of humanity beyond what we already know and that Krakoa isn’t an attack of humanity, just the systems that seek to keep mutants down while elevate humans and those with passing privilege?

[loke13]

...if you are going by that logic, then everyone who complained about the Inhumans was complaining about something new and different. Because the Inhumans getting a big push was very new and different so was the illogical IvX. But you know, the complainers said they didn’t like it because it was you know, dumb, but that can’t be possible... to possibly, not like something ‘new’ and ‘different’...just because you don’t like it and not because you’re stuck in ‘nostalgia’ and hate new things...

I never implied any of that. But the founding of a nation isn't meant to be some morally righteous act. It's bloody, it requires wet work, and to be ethically and morally flexible.

I think if you see a problem with that you should, the X-Men are superhero comics and people want their superheroes to be in the morally right position. But at the same time the X-Men are also a metaphor for oppressed minority groups who've had the boot on their neck for far too long and are tired of it.

[The tall man]

There are parts of the discussion I like, I really love the speculation about the future of the X-Men going forward and how much this status quo makes me happy that the X-Men finally have a true home that can't be easily taken from them. They are in an independent country, SHIELD, the Avengers, or any of the other agencies of various world governments cannot just show up in Krakoa with Sentinels and bulldozers because that would be a true act of war with a nation recognized by the United Nations. The Krakoan government is perfectly within their rights to destroy any Helicarrier that tries to enter their air space without permission. If a nation tries to blockade them without approval from the United Nations, the Krakoan government is allowed to defend their border. They are allowed to build the most advanced missile defense system in the world that can repel Sentinels, nuclear bombs, and anything else the human nations try to throw at them. They are allowed to defend their country. They are allowed to capture and detain any hostile combatants that enter the nation of Krakoa. If the Avengers come into Krakoa without authorization they can be captured and detained. Humans who commit war crimes can be put on publicized trial in Krakoa and tried with those war crimes under the Geneva Convention. No more ONE showing up at the door and thinking they have the right to detain everyone for being a mutant, if they show up at Krakoa every member of the ONE can be captured and tried for attempting to start a war with the nation of Krakoa.

I love this because even if there are some things that are questionable that will probably be addressed later, the mutants having a nation changes the game for the entire 616 Earth. If you show up at Krakoa looking for a fight now, you have to be prepared that you are declaring war against an independent nation and that nation can strike back in reprisal if you attack their citizens. If you bring a submarine in range of their territory and fire a missile at Krakoa, they have every right to destroy your submarine, confiscate any weapons on board, and detain every member of the crew.

So does this aggressive approach go both ways? If the X-men or any mutant enters a country can they be captured, detained and held as trespassers? If the X-men attack a country and are captured in the act can/should they be tried as enemy combatants or terrorists? And if Krakoa attacks a country will that country be in the right to retaliate? Krakoa bans humans so if every country says ok; going forward no mutant is welcomed in any country on earth, stay on your island, do the mutants accept that? And lastly when all this comes crashing down, when Krakoa eventually fails (because we know it will at some point and the future shown in POX shows a failed Krakoa and a near extinguished mutant line) how will all the rabid Krakoa nation fans react? Some really seem to think this will be the new normal going forward and this status quo will last indefinitely. When the X-men start taking some losses and not everything goes their way, when the humans get some wins (because Hickman will not just have the Mary Sue mutants keep winning everything) what then? Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[RachelGrey]

So does this aggressive approach go both ways? If the X-men or any mutant enters a country can they be captured, detained and held as trespassers? If the X-men attack a country and are captured in the act can/should they be tried as enemy combatants or terrorists? And if Krakoa attacks a country will that country be in the right to retaliate? Krakoa bans humans so if every country says ok; going forward no mutant is welcomed in any country on earth, stay on your island, do the mutants accept that? And lastly when all this comes crashing down, when Krakoa eventually fails (because we know it will at some point and the future shown in POX shows a failed Krakoa and a near extinguished mutant line) how will all the rabid Krakoa nation fans react? Some really seem to think this will be the new normal going forward and this status quo will last indefinitely. When the X-men start taking some losses and not everything goes their way, when the humans get some wins (because Hickman will not just have the Mary Sue mutants keep winning everything) what then? Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

That's pretty much a given you know! Because mutants have been treated as criminals just for existing by a vast majority of the humans and their countries. So yeah if they attack another country they will probably get nuked. If they are caught in another country violating the laws they may just be hidden in a dark hole and executed like they have been in the past. What you are suggesting is the status quo for humans and mutants up till now.

Up to now:
1. Humans have detained mutants indefinitely without trial and without access to a lawyer.
2. Humans have engaged in experimentation on mutants which often results in death.
3. Humans have hunted and killed mutants.
4. Humans have tried to "cure" away the X-Gene in mutants.
5. Humans have created killer robots to round up and exterminate mutants.
6. Humans have engaged in plans to commit worldwide genocide of mutants.

So yeah if Krakoa or it's citizens get out of lines the humans will behave as they always have, they will execute the mutants without trial or investigation.

I am not saying if a human steps foot on Krakoa they will automatically be put in custody. I am saying if you ride up in your Helicarrier carrying missiles and Sentinels with the intention of attacking Krakoa they have the right as a nation to defend their border with deadly force. If the Avengers come to the country to forcibly take over or attack the legal standing government of Krakoa, the nation of Krakoa has the right to arrest these people and put them in jail for investigation and trial.

It's just like any country in the world, Krakoa has the right to defend their territory and borders from outside attack. They have a right to protect their citizens. They have a right to protect their infrastructure. They have a right to trade with any country that signs a trade pact with them.

[useridgoeshere]

So does this aggressive approach go both ways? If the X-men or any mutant enters a country can they be captured, detained and held as trespassers? If the X-men attack a country and are captured in the act can/should they be tried as enemy combatants or terrorists? And if Krakoa attacks a country will that country be in the right to retaliate? Krakoa bans humans so if every country says ok; going forward no mutant is welcomed in any country on earth, stay on your island, do the mutants accept that? And lastly when all this comes crashing down, when Krakoa eventually fails (because we know it will at some point and the future shown in POX shows a failed Krakoa and a near extinguished mutant line) how will all the rabid Krakoa nation fans react? Some really seem to think this will be the new normal going forward and this status quo will last indefinitely. When the X-men start taking some losses and not everything goes their way, when the humans get some wins (because Hickman will not just have the Mary Sue mutants keep winning everything) what then? Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I find this a weird argument, given the history. Mutants have already been captured, detained, murdered, enslaved, exterminated, etc. If anything, Krakoa changes that because it gives Mutants some kind of protection. 100+ nations now have a treaty with Krakoa. If they violate the treaty, they'll lose access to Krakoa's meds and probably worse. They're in the UN. That has responsibilities, too. I don't get the hysteria about border control that ignores all the relationship building Krakoa is doing.

In every future, Mutants are wiped out, so this can't be any worse. Of course there will be losses, because that's how stories work. When things change, I'll be happy to have had these stories where Mutants are more than humanity's super-powered helper monkeys, saving the day and getting nothing in return. The Mutants were basically humanity's Alpha Primitives. Now, they're at least somewhat equal. It's a nice change of pace.

[PrezValentine]

Mutants have been banned or outlawed in certain countries, particularly in the United States. Why would it change if they just write into the law? The humans of the Marvel Universe already hate mutants.

[Stormultt Divine]

I find this a weird argument, given the history. Mutants have already been captured, detained, murdered, enslaved, exterminated, etc. If anything, Krakoa changes that because it gives Mutants some kind of protection. 100+ nations now have a treaty with Krakoa. If they violate the treaty, they'll lose access to Krakoa's meds and probably worse. They're in the UN. That has responsibilities, too. I don't get the hysteria about border control that ignores all the relationship building Krakoa is doing.

In every future, Mutants are wiped out, so this can't be any worse. Of course there will be losses, because that's how stories work. When things change, I'll be happy to have had these stories where Mutants are more than humanity's super-powered helper monkeys, saving the day and getting nothing in return. The Mutants were basically humanity's Alpha Primitives. Now, they're at least somewhat equal. It's a nice change of pace.

10's across the board.

People seem to keep forgetting this.