HOUSE OF X [05] : Society *Spoilers*

[Filthy Mutie]

Uh, yeah, Pak's X-Book work hasn't been the strongest.

Magneto: Testament and Greg Land's art on the Phoenix: Endsong keep his average from flat-lining.

[H-E-D]

Eh, I don't know if I think dividing his work up based on office makes sense when judging his quality as a writer.

Also, I thought people liked X-Treme X-Men.

[spirit2011]

Even with the limited dialogue, they even captured a some of Jean's personality in her response to the resurrection question from Storm.

Hickman just copied a dialog from X-factor

[Pav]

As customers we should be able to complain when we're getting things we consider sub-par. Especially if the writers are unprofessional & write characters based on their personal feelings or what's convenient rather than making them accurate.

If you went to a restaurant and your food had hair in it, would it be ok because you should just enjoy you got any food when you got it? Same if you pay a surgeon to do something & they screw it up or do it the way they think it works instead of how you wanted it, I am sure most would sue. lol

In the end taste is all subjective. Some people are plot & story oriented. Others are character oriented. Nobody is wrong, but it's just what they like. So people have higher standards in certain areas they care more about.

You are free to complain, but who wants to read complaint after complaint? I don't get the need that some feel to come to these boards or YouTube or whatever just to be negative. You can have those feelings without needing to inundate others with them, y'know?

What really gets me, as someone who is an educator in the realm of Literature and writing, and as a writer myself, is that many fans don't seem to really understand how a writer thinks or makes choices. Like, I remember reading a post last week about how writers need to be objective. But there's no such thing, because there isn't one and only one way to interpret a text. The idea that a writer shouldn't write based on "personal feelings" is kinda ludicrous. The writer writes what the writer wants to write. You may feel things are inaccurate, but textual interpretation is, by its very nature, subjective.

So, basically: it's fine for someone to not like Jean's portrayal, but to say it's straight-out wrong is a fundamental mistake. And even if it wasn't, why complain about it ad nauseum?

-Pav, who taught college Literature and Writing classes before his move to middle and high school...

[Filthy Mutie]

Eh, I don't know if I think dividing his work up based on office makes sense when judging his quality as a writer.

Also, I thought people liked X-Treme X-Men.

Eh, so he might be a generally good writer, I don't know, but his X-Men work was generally flaming garbage.

Is that the phraseology you're looking for?

Some people might've liked his X-Treme X-Men. Some people also liked X-Men Red.

[TOTALITY]

I mean who's dictating a story here? Nobody. Just those expressing displeasure at what they consider less than good writing. But some act as though fans who have had their favorites ruined for years have no right to complain, and if they do they're entitled or demanding because they have to constantly sit through years of character assassination, which again, they will vent about.

Everyone will be venting about something because everyone doesn't like everything or have the same standards.

But when those who are on top & have no problems are lecturing the ones that do, that just comes off as dismissive. Everyone sings a different tune when they're the one effected negatively. Again it's easy to tell people they're overreacting or being unfair when you don't care about the same thing. But the second it is something you care about, you would be just as critical.

I mean, it was you who introduced the metaphor of a restaurant serving food with hair in it, or medical malpractice, and that's what I was reacting to in all my talk about how the fan/creator relationship is totally different from those examples. Maybe that was an imperfect metaphor for what you were trying to express, so I'll try to 'strike that from the record' when I engage with what you're saying.

I really don't look at it like fans are "on top" like they're in a race between fans of other characters. I'm sympathetic to the fact that there are always readers who won't enjoy the current run or the current story -- that's been me plenty of times. I don't mean to sound dismissive. I guess all I wanted to push back on is the notion that Hickman is "doing it wrong", doesn't 'get' Jean, doesn't like Jean, that there's little reason to be optimistic for the future. It's not exactly the same as Kitty in Astonishing because declining to acknowledge someone's edgy bartender phase isn't the same as not acknowledging someone's most powerful, positively proactive depiction in memory, but they may be functionally similar in that by the time Astonishing X-Men was in full swing, Mekanix was but a footnote for the die-hard fans, and Hickman's X-Men in the long run could be a very substantial, definitive period for Jean which casts Red as a fun footnote for her fans. We've barely gotten started, but at this juncture it seems more likely to me that he has plans for Jean, than that he doesn't know why he's made her one of the most prominent Krakoa denizens.

If anyone's on top right now I feel like it's X-Men fans in general, since this run already seems to be revitalizing the line after some pretty questionable years. And I say that even as my personal favorites haven't appeared or been mentioned on the page yet. (Or wait, Kitty had her hand and silhouette in the first issue. But besides that..!) For those who aren't enjoying it, I only hope they can join in the fun eventually!

[Askani's Flame]

I forgot how moving that conversation with Logan and Kurt was, that was really excellent writing when I go back and read it a second time. It captured the essence of both characters really well.

For that particular scene, yes. But for me, I feel like something storyline driven makes me feel like all the characters are slightly off. Like Kurt felt like mid-80's Kurt before he was injured during the Mutant Massacre. You would have expected a more tongue and cheek line about having already died a few times when they were going to the sun, but nothing. Many of the characters feel off, especially those who went on that mission. So for me there is something afoot still and it's intentional. Hickman knows what he is doing, and I think some readers are quite going to be disturbed until it all plays out.

Hickman just copied a dialog from X-factor

You could also say "Hickman just copied Jean from X-Factor" and be more accurate.

[spirit2011]

You could also say "Hickman just copied Jean from X-Factor" and be more accurate.

No, it was just the dialog and the moment

[Shreene]

Just where does Forge get the materials to do his out of the clear blue techno-magic?

[Silver Fang]

You are free to complain, but who wants to read complaint after complaint? I don't get the need that some feel to come to these boards or YouTube or whatever just to be negative. You can have those feelings without needing to inundate others with them, y'know?

Sometimes venting makes people feel better. It can be therapeutic. A thread came up where posters were asked if certain characters should be killed off or put on a bus for a while. One poster noted that even though terrible showings aren't good, it's still something & they can keep entertained by complaining about them while waiting on something good to finally happen. lol Sometimes, that's one way to look at it.

I don't mind people's complaints since I never mind hearing what people disliked or would've done better, plus I relate more to them because I often know the feeling.

But what I personally find tiresome is people complaining about others' complaints despite seeing it changes nothing. lol The site has an ignore function that can be used. Or if the forum is just too negative for some, they can take off & completely drop it like one poster here seemed to last year. They had a couple of posts now & again, hated how negative everyone was about most of the stuff they enjoyed but couldn't talk about due to other fans' displeasure, and I haven't seen them since last Aug.

My opinion will always stay the same though. I think many writers do seem to play favorites nowadays & things are divided up into the pet characters, and everyone else who exists to hype those pets. lol And sadly most characters I have really invested in start of great, then fall off the wagon & become a shell of what they were to start making other characters look good. And it'd be nice if most ships could sail on their own without completely shooting down & sinking others.

[loke13]

Hickman was the first person in a long awhile to get Nightcrawler voice right as well imo. Hickman has favorites of course but I don't find him to be a writer that leans too heavy on his favorites. What do Magneto, Mr. Sinster, Emma, Namor, M have in common they are characters with big bombastic personalities that can deliver lines with snark or arrogance. We know Hickman is going to pick up and write well easy. Other characters haven't come as quickly Hickman didn't write a great Wolverine so far, Hickman hasn't wrote a great Cyclops so far. They are moments where he is close but it will get better with time. A character with heart and compassion takes a little more set up nuance writing characters like Jean, Nightcrawler, and Colossus and being interesting is freaking hard. You lean to hard on their compassion and the come off as soft like Jean did in HoX.

He is telling a large story with a bunch of moving parts. Jean is 3 pages in Hox 1, 3 pages in Hox 3, 6 pages in Hox 4, 3 pages in Hox 5. Complaining after maybe 15 pages and most of these pages are more story set up than dialogue-based stuff feels like people are being a bit early in their complaints.

Eh I disagree there Hickman has been killing it with the little we've gotten of Cyclops so far his dialogue with the FF as well as his "Then it will be done" moment in PoX was probably the best Cyclops has been written since the Utopia era.

[JKtheMac]

Eh I disagree there Hickman has been killing it with the little we've gotten of Cyclops so far his dialogue with the FF as well as his "Then it will be done" moment in PoX was probably the best Cyclops has been written since the Utopia era.

I agree. Cyclops is by far my favourite comic book character and this is the version I love. Stoic, determined, loyal but always questioning, risk averse but prepared to put himself on the front line, strategically minded and seeking to control outcomes with planning, and yet adaptable and able to plan on the fly.

I remain convinced that if written and portrayed properly in a movie he will be a breakout star in the wider culture. Here he is written properly, we just haven’t seen much of him yet.

[AHRNIHAL]

I agree. Cyclops is by far my favourite comic book character and this is the version I love. Stoic, determined, loyal but always questioning, risk averse but prepared to put himself on the front line, strategically minded and seeking to control outcomes with planning, and yet adaptable and able to plan on the fly.

I remain convinced that if written and portrayed properly in a movie he will be a breakout star in the wider culture. Here he is written properly, we just haven’t seen much of him yet.

I like this version of Cyke with very little that we got to see, especially after so much bad characterization since AvX.

[Killerbee911]

Eh I disagree there Hickman has been killing it with the little we've gotten of Cyclops so far his dialogue with the FF as well as his "Then it will be done" moment in PoX was probably the best Cyclops has been written since the Utopia era.

Just note I said it wasn't great that doesn't mean it wasn't good. That means it had room for improvement. And

They are moments where he is close but it will get better with time.

I don't think there is anything to disagree with but to each their own.

[JKtheMac]

I like this version of Cyke with very little that we got to see, especially after so much bad characterization since AvX.

Well I disagree with that but we all have different perspectives on characters.