So.... Johnny Storm is definitely bi right?

[Rosebunse]

The thing about the Doom and Lady Loki stuff is that that wasn't the genderfluid Loki we all know and love. That was Old Loki, who was a male, who was using a woman's body partially because he could use it to seduce and confuse men. It was basically a classic trap, something which today would be a rather offensive storyline but which here, ironically, helped give us our current Loki who is genderfluid.

Now, Doom didn't just go on a cute date with Lady Loki, he also had a fantasy where he took Emma Frost and Lady Loki as sex slaves for him and his BFF Namor to have their way with.

He also had a basement full of Loki clones who he was abusing and experimenting on.

We also have a panel from Magneto where Doom and Mangetonare talking and Loki is sitting back looking like Doom's bored girlfriend.

[Doombot]

You could just as easily argue Doom has the hots for Lady Sif, as that's who's body Loki was stealing. Doom has had no hint of attraction to Loki in any other form over the years.

[Rosebunse]

You could just as easily argue Doom has the hots for Lady Sif, as that's who's body Loki was stealing. Doom has had no hint of attraction to Loki in any other form over the years.

Yeah, which is, again, part of why Loki used that body. Sif is a beautiful woman.

However, Doom didn't know it wasn't Loki's body. He was still seemingly trying to romance Loki.

[WebLurker]

Yeah, which is, again, part of why Loki used that body. Sif is a beautiful woman.

However, Doom didn't know it wasn't Loki's body. He was still seemingly trying to romance Loki.

But would he've wanted to do it had Loki been using his own male body, not Sif's female one?

[Rosebunse]

But would he've wanted to do it had Loki been using his own male body, not Sif's female one?

I mean, in Doom's fantasy, Emma and Loki were chained up right by each other and it was implied that Namor was going to get Emma, so the whole thing likely would have turned into some sort of foursome.

Plus, in all seriousness, is Dook reallly going to admit that he's attracted to a man ecen if he is?

[Doombot]

Yeah, which is, again, part of why Loki used that body. Sif is a beautiful woman.

However, Doom didn't know it wasn't Loki's body. He was still seemingly trying to romance Loki.

But Loki was a beautiful woman, a goddess actually, his brain saw an extremely attractive woman, even if intellectually he knew it was Loki. It's a weird thing, body snatching and shapshifting, rules are up in the air. Like in the myths when Loki took the form of a mare and was mounted by a stallion and gave birth to Sleipnir, was he a man or a mare? Would you accuse the stallion of being into interspecies sex?

[Doombot]

I mean, in Doom's fantasy, Emma and Loki were chained up right by each other and it was implied that Namor was going to get Emma, so the whole thing likely would have turned into some sort of foursome.

Plus, in all seriousness, is Dook reallly going to admit that he's attracted to a man ecen if he is?

I don't think Doom would admit to even being attracted to any woman you accused him of fancying, he sort of feels it's a shallow weakness. At least admitting it to anyone else. Could you imagine Reed or Namor accusing Doom of liking anyone? He'd be furious.

[Rosebunse]

But Loki was a beautiful woman, a goddess actually, his brain saw an extremely attractive woman, even if intellectually he knew it was Loki. It's a weird thing, body snatching and shapshifting, rules are up in the air. Like in the myths when Loki took the form of a mare and was mounted by a stallion and gave birth to Sleipnir, was he a man or a mare? Would you accuse the stallion of being into interspecies sex?

I would say that in the myths, Loki is closer to genderfluid. We even have myths where he spends years as a woman and gives birth. We don't have confirmation that that happened in the comics, despite my creepy letters to Marvel.

[Iron Maiden]

I mean, in Doom's fantasy, Emma and Loki were chained up right by each other and it was implied that Namor was going to get Emma, so the whole thing likely would have turned into some sort of foursome.

Plus, in all seriousness, is Doom reallly going to admit that he's attracted to a man even if he is?

I don't know, restored face Doom and Stark were getting really popular in that gender free for all type of romantic fan fic So it's not like some fans/readers didn't see something there. Although the way Bendis was writing Tony's reaction, it looked a bit one sided. He was constantly commenting on how good Victor looked. To top it off, Victor stole his new gf Amara right under his nose. That could have had a dual purpose of lording it over Tony and getting his attention at the same time.

[BAS]

I really don't get the concept of trying to change a characters established characteristics and predilections in order to tell the story that 'needs to be told'.

Give me a break. There was no indication that Johnny had any attraction to members of the same sex, and then one writer decides 'wouldn't this be interesting' and suddenly he's full on sleeping with men.

And in nearly 60 years of stories, you find less than a handful of examples that suggest this has always been the case.

Truthfully -- it's really up to the editor to have an understanding of each character as they've been established -- and to object to any scenarios that betray those characteristics. The fact that the whole Johnny-Daken relationship saw the light of day is just an indictment of the editorial staff that said "sure, let's run with it."

[Raye]

The thing about the Doom and Lady Loki stuff is that that wasn't the genderfluid Loki we all know and love. That was Old Loki, who was a male, who was using a woman's body partially because he could use it to seduce and confuse men. It was basically a classic trap, something which today would be a rather offensive storyline but which here, ironically, helped give us our current Loki who is genderfluid.

Now, Doom didn't just go on a cute date with Lady Loki, he also had a fantasy where he took Emma Frost and Lady Loki as sex slaves for him and his BFF Namor to have their way with.

He also had a basement full of Loki clones who he was abusing and experimenting on.

We also have a panel from Magneto where Doom and Mangetonare talking and Loki is sitting back looking like Doom's bored girlfriend.

But that wasn't out of any romantic/sexual interest, he was trying to make his own Clor. (Cloki? and failed, in any case)

And the Magneto thing, I mean that was because Magneto went to Latveria to get Doom coincidentally right at the same time Loki was there. But it's not like they were just... Hanging out. It was because they had just been fighting, as shown in Loki's book at the time, and then called a truce because Loki saved Latveria. Loki was only there though because Doom had tried to kill him

he had a fantasy, because, as mentioned by others above, at that time Loki was in the form of a beautiful woman. Just because he expressed interest (unhealthy as it may have been) in one circumstance where Loki was a woman doesn't mean every other instance he showed some kind of interest is also sexually/romantically motivated, or that it would extend to Loki now that he is (mostly) male again. I don't think he has any interest in Loki whatsoever romantically, unless Loki is in a female body at the time, and even then it would be more physical than anything, and he'd never admit it. Doom comes across as straight to me, that was a weird situation, but he was he was still attracted to someone who appeared to be female.

Johnny, I do think an argument could be made for being bi. And it's not as if him being bi invalidates any of his past interest in women. He could still be mostly attracted to women, but open to the possibility of a guy. As has probably been mentioned before, due to the comics code and just society I general, for a long time characters simply could not be shown to be gay or bi. Now that they can show that openly, I don't think it's a bad thing to reveal some of those older characters may not actually be straight, as long as it fits, and I think it could here.

[scourge]

As for Doom, he's always come off entirely as straight to me. With the exception of his Hate-Attraction to Mr. Fantastic.

[JackDaw]

Johnny, I do think an argument could be made for being bi. And it's not as if him being bi invalidates any of his past interest in women. He could still be mostly attracted to women, but open to the possibility of a guy. As has probably been mentioned before, due to the comics code and just society I general, for a long time characters simply could not be shown to be gay or bi. Now that they can show that openly, I don't think it's a bad thing to reveal some of those older characters may not actually be straight, as long as it fits, and I think it could here.

It could.

But deep down I doubt that Marvel would do anything particularly interesting with it. By that I mean I suspect all the Marvel characters would be fine with it...there would be no story lines about Johnny agonising about impact of “coming out”, some of the people he always thought tolerant wouldn’t unexpectedly have issues with him being bi...

But unless it does trigger off story lines we wouldn’t see if he just had another girl friend...is there any point in him being bi?

[Michael Watkins]

You could just as easily argue Doom has the hots for Lady Sif, as that's who's body Loki was stealing. Doom has had no hint of attraction to Loki in any other form over the years.

The assumption is that doom would sleep with Sif without consent?

[Michael Watkins]

As for Doom, he's always come off entirely as straight to me. With the exception of his Hate-Attraction to Mr. Fantastic.

He's clearly attracted to Namor.