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  1. #76
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    Marvel Retcon here we come again! House of Retcon!

  2. #77
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Keep it civil, folks. Discuss the topic, not each other.
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  3. #78
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I already see that no reason would be deemed "worthy" by you and I have nothing to prove to you. If a poster sincere in wanting to know the reason why asks, I'll answer. But you've made your views very transparent.
    Again...you took a few out of context scans and posted them up. You never gave a valid reason that it would help the character. I literally could construct a more solid case for Bruce Wayne sleeping with and abusing his protege's due to traumatic abuse by Alfred then you could create reasoning to which Jonny should be bi-sexual.

    The boy has just been with too many women and shown too much sexual attraction to mostly women. If there was a legit story reason for the switch I may consider it and go along with it. But after the Iceman thing and a few other characters switching sexual orientation IMO does more harm for the characters then good.

    It's not even needed any longer.

    All of these characters count among members of the FF. Marvel should just switch one or two of the Main members out for a bit for a LGBT characters that has already been established and call it a day.



    Iceman could be fun on that team. As well as Northstar. Could you imagine the fun snide remarks Northstar would throw at Ben? Be hilarious.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 09-19-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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  4. #79
    Spectacular Member starduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Marvel Retcon here we come again! House of Retcon!
    Are you sure about that? DC's contuinity explodes every few years.

  5. #80
    Spectacular Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Again...you took a few out of context scans and posted them up.
    None of the scans provided have been without context explained.

    You never gave a valid reason that it would help the character.
    Bad faith argument but fine. It'd open up a hell of a lot more story paths, get him more exposure to a wider audience, and break him out of that same cycle he always get rolled back into. How about providing a valid reason it would hurt the character other than "Homophobes would whine!".

    I literally could struct a more solid case for Bruce Wayne sleeping with his protege's due to traumatic abuse by Alfred then you could create reasoning to which Jonny should be bi-sexual.
    No. No you could not. You are flat out wrong. And on top of that, you're being painfully transparent with the phobic bend of your argument here.

    The boy has just been with too many women and shown too much sexual attraction to mostly women.
    Hahaha. Yes because there's no such thing as being in the closet, being in denial, etc. And its real common IRL for LGBT persons to hide or not realize their orientation until later in life for a variety of reasons.

    If there was a legit story reason for the switch I may consider it and go along with it.
    Everything you've said so far does not inspire faith in that statement.

    But after the Iceman thing and a few other characters switching sexual orientation
    Like who?

    It's not even needed any longer.
    Not something you get to decide. And you're wrong anyway.

    All of these characters count among members of the FF. Marvel should just switch one or two of the Main members out for a bit for a LGBT characters that has already been established and call it a day.



    Iceman could be fun on that team. As well as Northstar. Could you imagine the fun snide remarks Northstar would throw at Ben? Be hilarious.
    And the second they did, we'd get nothing but people crying for the classic team to come back and crying about big and scary "SJWS!!!".

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    The boy has just been with too many women and shown too much sexual attraction to mostly women. If there was a legit story reason for the switch I may consider it and go along with it. But after the Iceman thing and a few other characters switching sexual orientation IMO does more harm for the characters then good.
    I just remember Johnny being dumped repeatedly by women and moping about all his past failures that involved women. But if it makes a few posters here happy about him being Bi I guess the House of Retcon could work their magic and make him Bi to appease a few hundred at the most?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    Are you sure about that? DC's contuinity explodes every few years.
    There is no such thing as continuity at DC that's for sure.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    1. Representation - People treat this like it's a dirty word or that it's some goal with a magic number meaning it's already been achieved. It's none of these things. People deserve to feel represented and having a variety of of people represented leads to richer stories and different points of view. For Johnny I think him being bisexual fist well with his history and provides much needed positive representation for people who are bisexual. There is a trope of the "Depraved bisexual" and Marvel especially has their most famous bisexual characters (Mystique and Daken) apart of this trope. Having more positive bisexual heroes would be a good thing.

    2. Johnny would get a different story from the usual immaturity plots. Most of Johnny's "arcs" revolve around him having to grow up and his arrested development. A coming out story would be different from that and show a different side to the character, his fears and wants. A lot of Johnny stories are often pretty shallow and this is one story that could bring some more depth to Johnny. Not that all coming out stories automatically add depth, just that if done right and with respect they can.

    3. It's also brings some unique story potential when you combine it with the Fantastic Four's celebrity. It shows another angle to coming out when you add being a celebrity and social media. His family may be accepting, but what about the media and his fans? How will they react and how will he feel about that? Seeing how it effects him and what he decides to do about it. Plus bisexuality comes with it's own trials and tribulations as for many years people used to say it was fake and that bisexuals were lying and are just really gay. Or that they come across some pretty gross attitudes both in and out of the LGBT community. There's a lot you can do and see how Johnny reacts and grows from these experiences.

    On the popular thing, no one knows a sure fire way to make a character more popular. If they did Marvel would have done it with all of their characters already and there would be no 'tier list'. But there would definitely be people more interested in the character and if his story may help someone out there struggling and that's always good imo, especially considering these are comics all about helping people.
    Last edited by Crimz; 09-19-2019 at 04:27 PM.
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  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Again...you took a few out of context scans and posted them up.
    As I said before.

    I. Gave. Context.

    If there is any you want more on let me know.
    Last edited by Crimz; 09-19-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    The boy has just been with too many women and shown too much sexual attraction to mostly women. If there was a legit story reason for the switch I may consider it and go along with it.
    I not going to argue about Johnny being bi or if he should be , but this is the laziest excuse to argue against a character not being bi.

    Being bi doesn't mean that his attraction to the same sex needs to be as strong as his attraction to the opposite sex. It could be that he is a bi-sexual that is generally attracted to women, but there is still an underline attraction to men that he have never paid attention to or acted on.

    In a real life situation that I've known this to have happened it took the person realizing that they where in love with someone of the same sex to even question their sexuality, by his own accounts he never considered possibility of being gay or bi.

    Sexuality is complex and unlike what is stated in popular media most people don't always know their sexuality in their childhood sometime it takes life and experiences to figure it all out.
    Last edited by ZuLuLu; 09-19-2019 at 04:55 PM.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Still no reasons that will benefit the character any more than the path he is currently on.

    I'm against just about any unnecessary dramatic change to most marvel characters. With the big two comic sales currently so close shutting down their doors completely its passed time for REAL solid story telling than another gimmick of the week change.

    Just based on the passed few years making Johnny Bi would probably loose him more fans then he would ever hope to gain just due to the simple fact that it seems comic buyers are tired of the BS. Not because he is bi or any other form of LGBT.

    Thats my two cents. Please continue the one sided thread built around the fact that no one can disagree and provides very little logical reasoning for the character.
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  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Then there's the thing with Daken...





    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    that's like asking if Northstar is gay. where's the debate?
    Chris Claremont worked pretty darn hard to imply that Wolfsbane and Dani Moonstar were a would-be LGBTQ couple, and then years later in the New Mutants revival, Dani notes that she's not lesbian (a female barista was hitting on her). In the Runaways comics, Nico was a straight character in the original run, but the revival (by a different author), wrote her as bisexual, changing the context of the original issues.

    My point with those examples is that implications by earlier authors don't always pan out in the long run, so I'm careful about taking alleged subtext "as is;" if nothing else, confirmation bias can easily creep into a discussion where there's no black or white answer.

    Authorial intent doesn't always pan out, so, yeah, short of something confirming it on page, it's still a debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    This is the current running list on Wikipedia
    Gabby Kinney is a LGBTQ character? Haven't read anything that suggested that (or even addressed her sexuality period*), and I do try to keep on top of this character's appearances.

    *In the "Old Woman Laura" AU story arc of All-New Wolverine, she was mentioned to have married someone named Taylor and raised a family, but Taylor's gender was never specified (and it is a unisex name) and it was mentioned that their kids were genetically related to Gabby, at least (that she'd married a man would be the simplest way to read the data). Also, AU stories rarely have much weight with the regular continuity.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
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    Don't recall Wolverine being LGBTQ; where was that?
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  13. #88
    Spectacular Member starduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post

    Don't recall Wolverine being LGBTQ; where was that?
    it was an AU Wolverine




  14. #89
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starduck View Post
    it was an AU Wolverine



    Daammmnnn!


    On topic: Johnny is bi, I mean FF don’t have any LGBTQ+ member .... is about TIME!

  15. #90
    Spectacular Member Coatl's Avatar
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    This was being a topic so funny, why not just ignore the homophobic comments and get back to the point.

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