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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    I haven't read a Scott Lobdell comic book since his X-Men run ended, and this felt very much like it was written in 1997. I'm not a Brett Booth fan, but I actually found the art relatively non-offensive. I didn't notice some of the usual Booth-ian quirks that keeps me away from his work.

    The Dark Multiverse is a recent addition to the DCU mythos that I just don't care about. Metal/Batman Who Laughs... I just can't bring myself to giving a damn. So I can't say I'm exactly intrigued by the direction, but hey. Wally is starring in a comic book again. That's something.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Seeing Pizza-Fish again almost made me have my own Heroes in Crisis moment
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  3. #33
    Constable of Continuity Gero4568's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    There's two intemingled "forgottens" going on - the pre-Flashpoint stuff, and Wally's New 52/Rebirth history

    In Rebirth, Barry only remembered the latter and the Titans had the same thing in Titans Rebirth. Them forgetting Wally was attributed to Abra Kadabra mindwiping everyone of Wally and causing him to fall into the Speed Force before he ever stopped being Kid Flash (and accidentally mindwiping himself in the process, to boot). And in that history, Linda literally never met Wally until after his return, so there was nothing for her to remember. (Indeed, it was suggested that this Wally only remembered any pre-Flashpoint history at all because he got those menories from the Speed Force, not because he "was" pre-FP Wally.)

    Now, Flash War blurred this, by having Magenta (implicitly) and Iris (explicitly) remember pre-FP memories from meeting Wally. So, uh... *shrug* I'm not sure DC have a solid idea about any of this any more. Maybe these guys fought KF Wally and being around him is jogging their memories of that, maybe he fought them off-panel post-Rebirth, maybe he's still leaking pre-FP memories like Williamson had him do (but that would raise questioms about Linda, so probably not).
    What it currently appears to be is that Wally's history was revised after the Rebirth timeline changes and it currently appears that he had his Pre-FP History and was trapped in the Speed Force by Kadabra during the early New 52. The KF costume in Rebirth was a result of residual tampering by Manhattan. No more. No less.
    Pull List: Doomsday Clock, Action Comics, Superman, Batman, Flash, Young Justice, Justice League, Harley Quinn, Green Lantern, Hawkman

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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I always assumed the Kadabra storyline in Titans was meant to be a misdirect created by Doctor Manhattan so Wally and everyone would believe that it was the work of a vengeful tangible villain they could fight and not some omnipotent being who rewrote the universe on his own little whim.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gero4568 View Post
    What it currently appears to be is that Wally's history was revised after the Rebirth timeline changes and it currently appears that he had his Pre-FP History and was trapped in the Speed Force by Kadabra during the early New 52. The KF costume in Rebirth was a result of residual tampering by Manhattan. No more. No less.
    In Titans #5, Kadabra explicitly says that he got rid of "Kid Flash". The art shows Kadabra attacking Kid Flash. In Doomsday Clock #11, Lex Luthor refers to the "Rebirth of Kid Flash".

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    I haven't read a Scott Lobdell comic book since his X-Men run ended, and this felt very much like it was written in 1997. I'm not a Brett Booth fan, but I actually found the art relatively non-offensive. I didn't notice some of the usual Booth-ian quirks that keeps me away from his work.

    The Dark Multiverse is a recent addition to the DCU mythos that I just don't care about. Metal/Batman Who Laughs... I just can't bring myself to giving a damn. So I can't say I'm exactly intrigued by the direction, but hey. Wally is starring in a comic book again. That's something.
    Wally starring in a comic book to redeem a sin from a story that shouldn't even have to happen if DC didn't delay Doomsday Clock so much that it's not canon anymore it's not something. It's fixing a mistake that shouldn't even happen.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Wally starring in a comic book to redeem a sin from a story that shouldn't even have to happen if DC didn't delay Doomsday Clock so much that it's not canon anymore it's not something. It's fixing a mistake that shouldn't even happen.
    Not exactly, to move him Forward. Fixing/redemption is less of a priority. Cause Lobdell doesn't believe wally commited much of a crime.

  8. #38
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Not exactly, to move him Forward. Fixing/redemption is less of a priority. Cause Lobdell doesn't believe wally commited much of a crime.
    Do you think Booth would have signed on if something doesn’t happen that effectively retcons what happened as being Wally’s actions though?
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  9. #39
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    Will skim through but not. I loved Booth art, it evolved great. But HiC was so bad, it's not a story you should try and salvage it's a story you should erase from canon and existence and this range in the "What the hell were they thinking ?" area.
    It's not salvaging Wally character who obviously should have had a death penalty for what he did if we were coherent.
    Not saying Lobdell won't do a great job with the story, saying, should he even bother ?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Do you think Booth would have signed on if something doesn’t happen that effectively retcons what happened as being Wally’s actions though?
    It will. But, that isn't the main focus. If it was wally and linda convo would have happened. There are things that are being peppered in as well.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Jacket View Post
    Will skim through but not. I loved Booth art, it evolved great. But HiC was so bad, it's not a story you should try and salvage it's a story you should erase from canon and existence and this range in the "What the hell were they thinking ?" area.
    It's not salvaging Wally character who obviously should have had a death penalty for what he did if we were coherent.
    Not saying Lobdell won't do a great job with the story, saying, should he even bother ?
    I am no law expert, but does Accidental/involuntary Man slaughter get death sentence?
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-20-2019 at 12:58 AM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I am no law expert, but does Accidental/involuntary Man slaughter get death sentence?
    Depends on jurisdiction. And superhero worlds aren't generally running on the rule of law anyway.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I am no law expert, but does Accidental/involuntary Man slaughter get death sentence?
    What Wally did fell within negligent mass murder, which is death sentence or life depending.

    Wally was apparently aware that he was a danger to those around him and informed no one of his condition, which costed them their lives. It's like someone who knows they can't drive a car without losing control opting to drive a car and killing all the people driving with them.

  14. #44
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    I wonder if HIC will get retconed here at the end or will they keep on running with Wally West: Murderer narrative till he dies trying to redeem himself.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    What Wally did fell within negligent mass murder, which is death sentence or life depending.

    Wally was apparently aware that he was a danger to those around him and informed no one of his condition, which costed them their lives. It's like someone who knows they can't drive a car without losing control opting to drive a car and killing all the people driving with them.
    Where does it says that? Show me a panel. If you are talking about the "burden" thing. When He was having the panic attack.He ran outside so that others would not get hurt, as matter of fact. So, there was no negligence on wally's part. But,the alarm rang the heroes got outside before wally could do anything to warn them his powers went haywire. So, it is involuntary manslaughter. He had no control of his actions, at the moment of crime.




    You can say wally shouldn't have put himself in that kind of stress to begin with. But, wally had no idea he was. He was put in a strange place with others to "heal". He had no idea if it was just a coercive tactic to keep him isolated in by the "heroes". He had no idea how this was supposed to help him. So, he decided to investigate to know if the place was real or facade. Sorrows causing him to have a panic attack was entirely an accident or out of his control. He had asked for clarification. But, they didn't give him a satisfactory answer, but playing the pr answers without evidence. So, Wally doubting was entirely on them.

    If you are blaming wally not telling others prior to the event. Well, its part of his privacy. Neither did barry his mentor did it. As matter of fact wally was minor when he got his powers. Barry and whom ever was responsible for wally at the time has to be blamed for that. Since, it wasn't wally's decision to take at the time. For example, superman had told the league regarding Jon's erratic powers early on. You could say wally had opportunity afterwards. But, he was following the standard set by barry. So, barry and all other speedsters will be as guilty.

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