Flash Forward #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[BohemiaDrinker]

As a matter of fact, the more you look into it, the more it becomes apparent that this book was set up to fail in as many ways as possible sans having Wally as the main character.

Remember when they tried to fix Cass Cain by giving her back to Adam Beechen?

Ah, those horrible, horrible old times.... they never really end.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Their solution is just to dig a deeper hole.

Dan doesn't believe in bad publicity and stated many, many times that if people are angry is because they care (the latter is actually true).

We keep discussing this steaming pile of crap that is HiC, the message that gets across is that "it generates interest". An angry dollar is still a dollar.

We should just bury it and let it be clear that that **** is just not ok, not relevant and not worth spending saliva on.

Anything else is guaranteed to lead to HiC2.

I've learned the hard way, and on numerous occasions, that trying to get people to not talk about something they hate is virtually impossible. Telling angry comic fans they shouldn't be discussing something is like yelling at the tide to stop coming in.

Didio is gonna Didio. There's no getting around it. This shtick worked once with Identity Crisis, which was similarly controversial and divisive among fans. Even though he's never managed to recapture that lightning in a bottle again, I totally get why he keeps trying to again and again. No matter what we might think of Identity Crisis, it sold really well and was very well received critically. I think he figured with King, he had a chance to do so and it blew up in his face, so we're probably safe from another few years at least, because Heroes in Crisis was neither a financial nor critical success by the time it ended.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I've learned the hard way, and on numerous occasions, that trying to get people to not talk about something they hate is virtually impossible.

Sure! But then let's just talk about how much we hate it, not discuss the validity of story points. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Sure! But then let's just talk about how much we hate it, not discuss the validity of story points. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But we need to exhaustively examine and re-examine the who's, why's, and how's of what we hate about Heroes in Crisis. Anything less would feel unsatisfying to a comic geek

[married guy]

We can forget HIC or act like it never happened but who will give me back Roy Harper?
He’s the one who paid the higher price, maybe Wally would be fixed and none talk about poor Roy.

It never happened.
Roy is alive and well.
Heroes In Crisis was an out of continuity story that was never meant to be included as canon within the DCU.
Move along!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It never happened.
Roy is alive and well.
Heroes In Crisis was an out of continuity story that was never meant to be included as canon within the DCU.
Move along!

I just assumed Superboy-Prime had a hissy fit and punched the Source Wall again

[Buried Alien]

But we need to exhaustively examine and re-examine the who's, why's, and how's of what we hate about Heroes in Crisis. Anything less would feel unsatisfying to a comic geek

DC pretty much treated John Byrne's GENESIS and James Robinson's CRY FOR JUSTICE as DOA, but I don't think DC invested as heavily into either of those as they did for HEROES IN CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[H-E-D]

But we need to exhaustively examine and re-examine the who's, why's, and how's of what we hate about Heroes in Crisis. Anything less would feel unsatisfying to a comic geek

There's never satisfaction as a comic geek, only the promise of it.

[Buried Alien]

There's never satisfaction as a comic geek, only the promise of it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Stone Alive!)

[BohemiaDrinker]

But we need to exhaustively examine and re-examine the who's, why's, and how's of what we hate about Heroes in Crisis. Anything less would feel unsatisfying to a comic geek

Nah. There can be no satisfaction derived from that. Pure, fiery, unfiltered and unrelenting hate is all that should be aimed at it's direction.

Or, you know, contempt. Contempt is fine as well.

[manwhohaseverything]

Having contributed to the expansion of the thread. I refuse to believe we were just hating on hic and king. It was more about whether wally commited murder or manslaughter and was wally alone in publishing the heroes medical data. Also, we discussed how good of a framejob wally conducted in that book. Also whether wally deserves death sentence for all the crimes he did.
Does that contribute to just hate?

[WTNew]

This book didn't generate the discussion. Heroes in Crisis did.

And Heroes in Crisis SUCKED!

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DC pretty much treated John Byrne's GENESIS and James Robinson's CRY FOR JUSTICE as DOA, but I don't think DC invested as heavily into either of those as they did for HEROES IN CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Heroes in Crisis was an odd duck from the beginning. An event written by a guy who didn't want to write an event, who has coming off of a critical darling like Mister Miracle, but who was also writing a pretty divisive Batman run. From Didio's perspective, I can understand why he thought thought he had a chance to replicate the success of Identity Crisis, but he was utterly clueless in not understanding how badly DC fans would react to piling more misery on top of a character who had already been neglected and mismanaged for so long. I get that he thinks controversy sells, because it does, but he's gotta pick his spots and it was disastrous for any goodwill DC had engendered from Rebirth.

With Genesis and Cry for Justice, it was a little different, because both Byrne and Robinson's stars had fallen so low by that point, those stories ended up being one more nail in their coffins as popular creators.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Having contributed to the expansion of the thread. I refuse to believe we were just hating on hic and king. It was more about whether wally commited murder or manslaughter and was wally alone in publishing the heroes medical data. Also, we discussed how good of a framejob wally conducted in that book. Also whether wally deserves death sentence for all the crimes he did.
Does that contribute to just hate?

I don't think anyone here thinks you're just piling on the hate train. From what I've read, your points have been well-reasoned and articulated, and certainly relevant to what's happening in Flash Forward and I think you should keep on doing so. Stories like Heroes in Crisis get people riled up. I've come around to the opinion that it's best to let people rant and vent about the stuff they hate. If you want to keep pointing out how they might be exaggerating and blowing things out of proportions at times, you absolutely should.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Heroes in Crisis was an odd duck from the beginning. An event written by a guy who didn't want to write an event, who has coming off of a critical darling like Mister Miracle, but who was also writing a pretty divisive Batman run. From Didio's perspective, I can understand why he thought thought he had a chance to replicate the success of Identity Crisis, but he was utterly clueless in not understanding how badly DC fans would react to piling more misery on top of a character who had already been neglected and mismanaged for so long. I get that he thinks controversy sells, because it does, but he's gotta pick his spots and it was disastrous for any goodwill DC had engendered from Rebirth.

About the underlined section: he probably knew. He probably did it on purpose. But he also probably thought that the final product would have enough quality to have defenders in equal measure to detractors. Of course it doesn't, because not only the story was really, really bad (and it's hard for bad things to have defenders), but at this point even people who either didn't care about or outright dislike Wally got irked by it because, let's face, DC is just being a jerk in this particular case.

About the bolded section: yeah, that probably worked exactly as intended.