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  1. #16
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    People think Crisis was a mess back in '86 because obviously they didn't know what would come after. Anyone who thinks this is even remotely comparable to what we had before Flashpoint is nuts.

    Honestly they should just start writing the characters as if they were their Pre-Flashpoint versions and be done with it. It's the only way to fix this mess that will satisfy most people. Not even writers want to deal with New 52. It was a complete failure.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Man, best of luck to that. Because as things stand now, no way a timeline could make sense with so much stuff in flux and making no sense. And with their track record even if they do whip something up somewhat passable, by the time its published it'll be out of date already.
    DC is a mess. The minute they knew the new 52 wasn't going to be a faithful reboot (Batman, Titans and Green Lantern), they should've just cancelled the idea.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxi View Post
    People think Crisis was a mess back in '86 because obviously they didn't know what would come after. Anyone who thinks this is even remotely comparable to what we had before Flashpoint is nuts.

    Honestly they should just start writing the characters as if they were their Pre-Flashpoint versions and be done with it. It's the only way to fix this mess that will satisfy most people. Not even writers want to deal with New 52. It was a complete failure.
    Characterizations have nothing to do with the timeline not making sense, though. They could revert everything back to exactly where things left off before Flashpoint, and there'd still be major problems. In the end that alone would fix nothing in regards to the history because they've been screwing up said timeline for nearly 15 years now, very much during the pre-FP era.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    DC is a mess. The minute they knew the new 52 wasn't going to be a faithful reboot (Batman, Titans and Green Lantern), they should've just cancelled the idea.
    Pretty much. But then again DC doesn't really do much of anything with full faith. It was par for course that they'd try to cherry-pick and unknowingly sabotage their efforts from the start. How they didn't realize that would happen is beyond me but so it was. "Yeah we're starting Superman and Wonder Woman over completely. Meanwhile Batman still has had four Robins one of which is his ten year old biological son." No one really thought to say that sentence and realize how unworkable it was in a shared setting? Hell they originally were going to start Kon-El's story in Superboy with all his pre-FP history intact, knowing full well Superman, the tether that binds it all, was being completely rebooted! Sense somehow eventually worked its way in there, there but its just another example of how they were so ill-prepared to do what was necessary to truly reboot. And that's too bad, because while sure it did some bad things, the New 52 also produced some really cool stuff too. It just had to work on a completely shaky foundation from the start and it eventually fell.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-18-2019 at 05:17 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  4. #19
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    *cough cough*

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...hlight=history


    [IMG]blob:https://imgur.com/b9912276-34ab-4334-941b-5154a276124d[/IMG]

    Seriously, I would love to see DC try to come up with some kind of overarching history, but, like Wolfman & Perez's History of the DCU, and the Zero Hour timeline, these thing inevitably become outdated because, unlike Marvel, DC's history is defined by its constant state of change.
    Last edited by Bored at 3:00AM; 09-18-2019 at 09:54 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Geoff Johns, yes. Paul Levitz, no. Levitz's calling card is keeping Silver/Bronze Age heroes dead and buried.

    The 1990s weren't sweet times for ALL DC fans, you know?

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I mean, both Hal and Barry came back while he was still in charge. He only left in 2009.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    There was also DC Universe: Legacies, a ten issue series that detailed key moments in DC's history, but then it was completely retconned away just a few months later with New52.
    In less time than it took to print the series. (eye-roll emoji not found)
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 09-18-2019 at 11:52 PM.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    The Crises and Reboots aren't so hard to deal with, not with the concept of Metaverse and Bendis acknowledging them in-stories.

    Honestly, I can't get into the Marvel Comics at all because it has never rebooted/ doesn't have an entry point. Even HOXPOX, while excellent, won't bring me to read X-Men comics after it. The Marvel Universe is too damn convoluted for me to care about those characters. I don't want to invest in this. For all it faults, New 52 made me start reading comics. I would never have done that without it. Never.

  8. #23
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    I swear they were releasing one this year from the pov of minority characters but it was cancelled or delayed ?

  9. #24
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I swear they were releasing one this year from the pov of minority characters but it was cancelled or delayed ?
    The Other History of the DC Universe by John Ridley. Announced Jan 2018. Cancelled indefinitely that Dec.

  10. #25
    Constant in Opal Nine Crocodile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    There was also DC Universe: Legacies, a ten issue series that detailed key moments in DC's history, but then it was completely retconned away just a few months later with New52.
    In less time than it took to print the series. (eye-roll emoji not found)
    What's even funnier is that Legacies didn't mesh with then-current DC continuity either.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The Crises and Reboots aren't so hard to deal with, not with the concept of Metaverse and Bendis acknowledging them in-stories.

    Honestly, I can't get into the Marvel Comics at all because it has never rebooted/ doesn't have an entry point. Even HOXPOX, while excellent, won't bring me to read X-Men comics after it. The Marvel Universe is too damn convoluted for me to care about those characters. I don't want to invest in this. For all it faults, New 52 made me start reading comics. I would never have done that without it. Never.
    I'm the opposite, myself. I like a rich and full history that I can learn about gradually.
    For me, it makes the characters feel more alive.

    But I can understand how some readers prefer a clean slate.

    If only there was a way to appeal to both types of readers.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The Crises and Reboots aren't so hard to deal with, not with the concept of Metaverse and Bendis acknowledging them in-stories.

    Honestly, I can't get into the Marvel Comics at all because it has never rebooted/ doesn't have an entry point. Even HOXPOX, while excellent, won't bring me to read X-Men comics after it. The Marvel Universe is too damn convoluted for me to care about those characters. I don't want to invest in this. For all it faults, New 52 made me start reading comics. I would never have done that without it. Never.
    Whether or not its your cup of tea, the fact that Marvel hasn't rebooted while DC has in the past is one of the most cited reasons I hear people give for why they prefer Marvel to DC. I'd actually say its one of the reasons why DC is losing significant ground to Marvel in terms of the sales. Most people don't want to invest in a universe where they don't know what happened in it or if their favorite character even still exists. So, the New 52 understandably destroyed a lot of the goodwill DC had built up with its fanbase over the years.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 09-19-2019 at 06:56 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Whether or not its your cup of tea, the fact that Marvel hasn't rebooted while DC has in the past is one of the most cited reasons I hear people give for why they prefer Marvel to DC. I'd actually say its one of the reasons why DC is losing significant ground to Marvel in terms of the sales. Most people don't want to invest in a universe where they don't know what happened in it or if their favorite character even still exists. So, the New 52 understandably destroyed a lot of the goodwill DC had built up with its fanbase over the years.
    It would have helped if it wasn't badly planned and shit in general

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Whether or not its your cup of tea, the fact that Marvel hasn't rebooted while DC has in the past is one of the most cited reasons I hear people give for why they prefer Marvel to DC. I'd actually say its one of the reasons why DC is losing significant ground to Marvel in terms of the sales. Most people don't want to invest in a universe where they don't know what happened in it or if their favorite character even still exists. So, the New 52 understandably destroyed a lot of the goodwill DC had built up with its fanbase over the years.
    I'll add to it the fear of investing in a comic or universe that may be shoved under a rug and retconned away with the next solicitation.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I'll add to it the fear of investing in a comic or universe that may be shoved under a rug and retconned away with the next solicitation.
    I'm more of a B.D./manga reader, really, so I realize I'm very distant from the usual comic crowd. The potentiality of a story being over wins me over, far more that the etneral continuity which makes no sense of Marvel.

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