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  1. #16
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Strange View Post
    Any mutant friend Spider-Man even had is a enemy now... racist mutants
    Hasn't Spidey always been on good terms with the X-Men? I mean, he's even been a teacher.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Hey now, I'm not a big fan of Iron Man in Spider-Man but he's had some really good runs, and I like the old Inhumans plenty .
    Tony Stark was fine and entertaining when he was a boring stuffy businessman and all-purpose lame guy. He was also more likable then. That version of Tony i.e. the Errol Flynn look-alike was JMS' take. And it's also Warren Ellis' in EXTREMIS which is maybe the best Iron Man story.

    However, I never bought Tony Stark as general center of the Marvel Universe especially because it was achieved as the result of CIVIL WAR which is a bad story, and one in which he is clearly the villain but given a pass for. I do like Fraction's run, and I think Worldwide Man Hunt (a story where Tony spends most of the time strapped to a gurney and ends up being saved by Pepper, and ends with Norman beating him up on TV) is great. After that you had RDJ and then comics Tony becomes this quippy guy with worse jokes than Peter. That's the problem of having a great actor define a character because the comics can't replicate all that made RDJ in images/words/panels.

    But any way Stark drools...X-Men Rules. Quite literally in Krakoa. I love the entire sequence in HOX #5 that came today with the stuff with Storm. That's controversial to some and it's meant to be ambivalent and strange but it's also beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    As for the event, this story IS an event. It was on Marvel's event calendar that they showed earlier (along with Absolute Carnage and War of the Realms). That said, this will undoubtedly lead to an even bigger thing much later. When was the last Marvel Universe event that the X-Men were front and center for?
    When I say event I mean an an event mini and tie-ins. Stuff like War of the Realms (where Spider-Man actually is featured well and there's a hilarious Tom Taylor tie-in that's easily the best Spider-Man/Thor story ever) and now Absolute Carnage. HOX/POX is 2 inter-related miniseries published Spencer HUNTED style (weekly for the duration and then monthly).

    You know...I actually got to know the X-Men through Spider-Man. I first read Spider-Man in the newspaper strip and the villain in that newspaper strip was Magneto. Even in that strip, I grokked how cool and badass Magneto was. Then the first X-Men movie came out and Magneto was there.

  3. #18
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    What makes guessing this hard is that the X-Men have been out of the spot light for quite a while, really. And yet, it makes sense that the X-Men stuff will start reaching out into the larger MU.

    It just feels like there's some X-Men vs Everyone Else event coming up.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Yeah, seems like it. Though with the reverse-racism towards non-mutants (human, mutate or otherwise), I wonder if there will any instances of "positive racism" to their non-mutant friends and allies. As in, a condescending sense of compassion.

    Like with Spider-Man, I can see Magneto saying to him "You may not be a true mutant, but you've been a friend to mutantkind. For that, you will be rewarded by having a new place in our world."

    Sounds like an interesting way to go.

  5. #20
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Tony Stark was fine and entertaining when he was a boring stuffy businessman and all-purpose lame guy. He was also more likable then. That version of Tony i.e. the Errol Flynn look-alike was JMS' take. And it's also Warren Ellis' in EXTREMIS which is maybe the best Iron Man story.

    However, I never bought Tony Stark as general center of the Marvel Universe especially because it was achieved as the result of CIVIL WAR which is a bad story, and one in which he is clearly the villain but given a pass for. I do like Fraction's run, and I think Worldwide Man Hunt (a story where Tony spends most of the time strapped to a gurney and ends up being saved by Pepper, and ends with Norman beating him up on TV) is great. After that you had RDJ and then comics Tony becomes this quippy guy with worse jokes than Peter. That's the problem of having a great actor define a character because the comics can't replicate all that made RDJ in images/words/panels.

    But any way Stark drools...X-Men Rules. Quite literally in Krakoa. I love the entire sequence in HOX #5 that came today with the stuff with Storm. That's controversial to some and it's meant to be ambivalent and strange but it's also beautiful.



    When I say event I mean an an event mini and tie-ins. Stuff like War of the Realms (where Spider-Man actually is featured well and there's a hilarious Tom Taylor tie-in that's easily the best Spider-Man/Thor story ever) and now Absolute Carnage. HOX/POX is 2 inter-related miniseries published Spencer HUNTED style (weekly for the duration and then monthly).

    You know...I actually got to know the X-Men through Spider-Man. I first read Spider-Man in the newspaper strip and the villain in that newspaper strip was Magneto. Even in that strip, I grokked how cool and badass Magneto was. Then the first X-Men movie came out and Magneto was there.
    With X-Men, I was introduced through my Dad. He was a huge fan, and somehow he got me into it. I bought a random Uncanny X-Men issue with Sabertooth held captive, and it was awesome. But X-Men and Spider-Man teaming up was in Ultimate Spider-Man for me. So it's even better to see in 616!
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Yeah, seems like it. Though with the reverse-racism towards non-mutants (human, mutate or otherwise), I wonder if there will any instances of "positive racism" to their non-mutant friends and allies. As in, a condescending sense of compassion.

    Like with Spider-Man, I can see Magneto saying to him "You may not be a true mutant, but you've been a friend to mutantkind. For that, you will be rewarded by having a new place in our world."

    Sounds like an interesting way to go.
    I don't think so. I certainly can't see them being allowed on the island. And that's sort of the thing about the language thing, even, it creates this even greater division between not just mutants and humans, but mutants and literally just everyone else.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I don't think so. I certainly can't see them being allowed on the island. And that's sort of the thing about the language thing, even, it creates this even greater division between not just mutants and humans, but mutants and literally just everyone else.
    Not the island in the present, more like in the future where mutants make up the majority of the world and presumably take over. Magneto alluded to this with that "new gods" speech. I can see Magneto, and the other mutants of this time believing that their non-mutant friends and allies, both close to the X-Men and in the greater superhero community, as being "friends" and are rewarded by not being persecuted in the cycle of revenge, or at least not as badly. It's the "you will be spared" mentality. That's what I meant.

    Make sense?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Not the island in the present, more like in the future where mutants make up the majority of the world and presumably take over. Magneto alluded to this with that "new gods" speech. I can see Magneto, and the other mutants of this time believing that their non-mutant friends and allies, both close to the X-Men and in the greater superhero community, as being "friends" and are rewarded by not being persecuted in the cycle of revenge, or at least not as badly. It's the "you will be spared" mentality. That's what I meant.

    Make sense?
    I guess I just can't see Magneto thinking that when he'd likely see all of them as potential threats.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Yeah, I imagine he would. However, I also imagine that such a case of generosity doesn't refer to them being equals to the mutants, just not vermin. That's what the "positive racism" and "condescending compassion" things refer to. Racism comes in many different flavors, and doesn't adhere to logic. I'm really interested to see how they handle that. Just stuff to think about.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Not the island in the present, more like in the future where mutants make up the majority of the world and presumably take over. Magneto alluded to this with that "new gods" speech. I can see Magneto, and the other mutants of this time believing that their non-mutant friends and allies, both close to the X-Men and in the greater superhero community, as being "friends" and are rewarded by not being persecuted in the cycle of revenge, or at least not as badly. It's the "you will be spared" mentality. That's what I meant.

    Make sense?
    In the current scenario, I can see Spider-Man chasing some random mutant criminal who's trying to access one of the portals created by the flowers of Krakoa, and then transported there and then Spider-Man meets Xavier and sees the mutant society. Either he gets mind-wiped or Xavier lets him go back but keeps the mutant criminal with him.

    In any case, Hickman is a huge fan of Shooter's SECRET WARS (no surprise) so I think there might be a call-back to the time that Spider-Man beat up the X-Men.
    .

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In the current scenario, I can see Spider-Man chasing some random mutant criminal who's trying to access one of the portals created by the flowers of Krakoa, and then transported there and then Spider-Man meets Xavier and sees the mutant society. Either he gets mind-wiped or Xavier lets him go back but keeps the mutant criminal with him.

    In any case, Hickman is a huge fan of Shooter's SECRET WARS (no surprise) so I think there might be a call-back to the time that Spider-Man beat up the X-Men.
    .
    They could make a good callback. You could even have Xavier not mind wipe him, and send him away, alluding to that event. I remember how Xavier regretted mind-wiping Spider-Man, saying that "in that moment of weakness, I was no better than Doom... or Hitler... or anyone else who ever used power to usurp another one's freedom."

    I'm not sure if this was ever referenced again, but such a case would be a good time, especially if it's an act that Xavier "long regrets" like he said in the story.

  12. #27
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Hasn't Spidey always been on good terms with the X-Men? I mean, he's even been a teacher.
    Same story that had him as a teacher for the X-Men had 'em treating him like a pest though.

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Alas, Spidey can't get any respect. It's the Parker Luck.

    Still, he's always been on good terms with the X-Men, as they've gone on many adventures together and Spidey's been good friends with Wolverine, Beast, Iceman, Firestar, and others I can't recall right now. I remember Nightcrawler gushing about him as Spider-Man was kicking all of their asses in Secret Wars. So I imagine they'll have some level of decency if the mutants rise up and take over the world.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    They could make a good callback. You could even have Xavier not mind wipe him, and send him away, alluding to that event. I remember how Xavier regretted mind-wiping Spider-Man, saying that "in that moment of weakness, I was no better than Doom... or Hitler... or anyone else who ever used power to usurp another one's freedom."

    I'm not sure if this was ever referenced again, but such a case would be a good time, especially if it's an act that Xavier "long regrets" like he said in the story.
    Xavier's long regrets seem to never last long enough to stop him making fresh regrets.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Yeah, I imagine he would. However, I also imagine that such a case of generosity doesn't refer to them being equals to the mutants, just not vermin. That's what the "positive racism" and "condescending compassion" things refer to. Racism comes in many different flavors, and doesn't adhere to logic. I'm really interested to see how they handle that. Just stuff to think about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Alas, Spidey can't get any respect. It's the Parker Luck.

    Still, he's always been on good terms with the X-Men, as they've gone on many adventures together and Spidey's been good friends with Wolverine, Beast, Iceman, Firestar, and others I can't recall right now. I remember Nightcrawler gushing about him as Spider-Man was kicking all of their asses in Secret Wars. So I imagine they'll have some level of decency if the mutants rise up and take over the world.
    I guess I just don't see it happening this way this time, especially when things get heated.

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