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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member
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    Whenever a elderly version of one of them meets the other crap will ensue....
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  2. #17
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Every franchise has its small and overarching pros and cons. Until recently I didn't much like Batman because of the cons foremost and then the way he's put over Superman in everything. Well actually it's much worse as a fan of Hawkman, Punisher, and the Shadow. But I've let that go. Batman written by Wein, Morrison, Grant, and others now including Bendis is a character I really like.

    I wish D.C. didn't like... release a fantastic hardcover with rare and acclaimed Englehart stuff for $40 while doing the mediocre Superman stretch of WFC for $60 with less content. But I can like both characters through it. I can like Superman even more because he's harder to work and feels more rewarding to collect in a satisfying fashion.

    I had my hang ups and wouldn't knock anyone, but the one thing I've always thought is that Batman raises all these concerns where Batman fans probably just spend the proportionate time thinking about Batman. If it gets frustrating how they compare, just ignore Batman.
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  3. #18
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    I'm more frustrated by the Superman's Office's inability to properly promote the Superman family.

    Aging up kid Jon Kent is just the latest example.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    only in the sense he is Dc number one hero he got that title from Superman. And when Batman beats Superman like I think Batman beats Superman way more times than Superman beats Batman
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    No, he doesn't frustrate me. What frustrates me is DC's recent inability to portray both Superman and Batman as established self-starters who are good friends. There should should great overlap in their orbits with one another, but they should never collide—and by collide I mean use each other to prop themselves up, kinda like you just described.

    That's not Batman's fault, that's DC and the recent writers' inability to be be good writers.

    Poor Batman's been regressed into being a socially inept moron who grunts like a caveman in a cape rather than being Batman, a hero who uses his life and social skills as Bruce Wayne to further his crusade against crime.

    If they can't write these men together, then maybe they should not put them together for a while until they remember how to do it.
    ^^^^^This.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    I'm more frustrated by the Superman's Office's inability to properly promote the Superman family.

    Aging up kid Jon Kent is just the latest example.
    Sadly, I must agree on both counts.
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  7. #22
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Well, let's see. Batman has his own day every single year and Superman doesn't, so...
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    No, he doesn't frustrate me. What frustrates me is DC's recent inability to portray both Superman and Batman as established self-starters who are good friends. There should should great overlap in their orbits with one another, but they should never collide—and by collide I mean use each other to prop themselves up, kinda like you just described.

    That's not Batman's fault, that's DC and the recent writers' inability to be be good writers.

    Poor Batman's been regressed into being a socially inept moron who grunts like a caveman in a cape rather than being Batman, a hero who uses his life and social skills as Bruce Wayne to further his crusade against crime.

    If they can't write these men together, then maybe they should not put them together for a while until they remember how to do it.
    They found this sweet spot again in the New 52. Unabashed bros, even the term Superfriends was used without shame (well okay it made Batman a bit embarrassed). But they were just plain friends. Their methods weren't always the same but they accepted their differences and were open with quite little distrust. And their encounters were a delight because of it. Sadly with the return of the old history also came the return of that dumbass "frenemy" take. First there was the boring tension there before Superman Reborn when this Superman was actually playing stranger on a strange world. But even after that was resolved the old post-Crisis take took hold again. They're friends, but there's that level of distance again, its only worth to portray the stupid cliches that Batman is dark and untrusting and Superman is too light and naive. Serves neither character well, but tends to hurt Superman worse as the "too naive" take always seems to play more the detriment.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-19-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    IMO, most creators don't mix Superman and normy human heroes very well. But yeah, the whole "prep time" and "Batgod" concepts are frustrating, especially when they're repeated as gospel by fans on the internet who clearly don't actually know the comic stories but are good at repeating things they've read on the internet or saw on YouTube.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    They found this sweet spot again in the New 52. Unabashed bros, even the term Superfriends was used without shame (well okay it made Batman a bit embarrassed). But they were just plain friends. Their methods weren't always the same but they accepted their differences and were open with quite little distrust. And their encounters were a delight because of it. Sadly with the return of the old history also came the return of that dumbass "frenemy" take. First there was the boring tension there before Superman Reborn when this Superman was actually playing stranger on a strange world. But even after that was resolved the old post-Crisis take took hold again. They're friends, but there's that level of distance again, its only worth to portray the stupid cliches that Batman is dark and untrusting and Superman is too light and naive. Serves neither character well, but tends to hurt Superman worse as the "too naive" take always seems to play more the detriment.

    Boy, did you just say a mouthful.
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  11. #26
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    My only complaint is when Superman is made to be meek and weak to exalt Batman. If Batman is an enemy of the Superman franchise as he has been for much of the last 30 years then Superman should be allowed to treat him as such. If Bruce is aggressive with Clark then Clark should be every bit as aggressive back, Superman made his name on clobbering self indulgent rich guys no reason to stop now.

    But I'd prefer if they were friends but I said it before I think the time for that ended with the Silver/Bronze Age. DC thinks you can make people with nothing in common friends but the history of humanity and frankly the history of the Post-Crisis attempt at this relationship shows you can't. At most you can co exist which is closer to what Bruce and Clark are in modern times. They exist along side one another and because of the historic significance of the Batman-Superman connection they team up more often than other potential hero combinations but the closeness they used to have is gone.

    Honestly a Blue Beetle(Ted)/Batman or Green Arrow/Batman team up book sounds much more fun to me than Superman/Batman. Like wise I would mind a book where all of Jerry Siegel's creations team up all the time.
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  12. #27
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Batman and Superman seemed pretty good friends in the JL cartoon from 15 years ago, imo. They even teased one another. I loved this ending.


  13. #28
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Im not bothered by Batman. I'm bothered by how DC handles the character and especially how they handle other characters in relation to Batman.
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  14. #29
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Im not bothered by Batman. I'm bothered by how DC handles the character and especially how they handle other characters in relation to Batman.
    This. So much.

    It also annoys so much when they make Superman look bad to favor other characters like Bats, Supergirl, etc. It's the trend to tear down the original superhero to make others look good. That's not fair. I think it has hurt Superman in the eyes of many. DC allows this..

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Batman and Superman seemed pretty good friends in the JL cartoon from 15 years ago, imo. They even teased one another. I loved this ending.

    This show can be cited as one of the reasons Superman is deemed as inferior to Batman. The entire Timm verse Superman is the nice but dim flying brick who will prob turn on humanity if things don't go his way. While Batman is smart, witty, admired by all, mysterious, conscientious, when you peel away the grumpy persona is more caring then even Superman himself of innocents and will battle until the end. Batman can also dodge Omega Beams and was de facto leader. The only time Superman got a break was when he was handled by Dwayne Mcduffie in eps like Hearafter or Destroyer and even then in Destroyer Clark did not save the day but Lex did by default. Most of earlier seasons Clark was always getting Koed too. Destroyer was actually like an apology to the fans but too late imo. A whole generation grew up with Batman saying to a whining Superman "cry me a river." Batman always was one upping Superman. Clark comes across as stereotypical simple farm boy and naive which is ridiculous imo as he is supposed to not only be very intelligent but a discerning reporter and we are in the 21st century.

    Today is ironically Batman day and the whole world is celebrating him. He is trending world wide. I do not recall Superman doing this. I love the character as the street level vigilante detective but he has been elevated to Batgod status and DC have been working every one of their properties around him to the point we had the misfires like the DCEU. Batman is a great character, very versatile but they need to stop undermining others for him to shine. Esp the metas who can easily wipe the floor with him and he has no place in some battle scenarios etc. Prep time is ridiculous.

    Batman capable of understanding or using alien tec while Superman wants to drive tractors makes no sense just as him having an anti lasso or Catwoman capable of beating Flash.
    Last edited by hellacre; 09-21-2019 at 12:14 PM.

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