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  1. #1
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    Default Why doesn’t Marvel allow the X-men to grow beyond its premise ?

    Why can’t Marvel just allow the X-men to go beyond itself premise just this once and showcase a world where mutants are accepted by humanity or at the very least showcase a world without the X-men in it ?

    At the very least show a Marvel Universe without the X-men for once right ?

  2. #2
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    Because there will always be hate.

    Also, Marvel doesn't like change too much.

  3. #3
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    No franchise can permanently abandon its basic premise.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member AHRNIHAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Why can’t Marvel just allow the X-men to go beyond itself premise just this once and showcase a world where mutants are accepted by humanity or at the very least showcase a world without the X-men in it ?

    At the very least show a Marvel Universe without the X-men for once right ?
    Ever heard of MCU?
    "...For you to die you would have to be forgotten and no one forgets a founder of a nation..."

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    There is no guarantee the other premise is going to work as well basically if it is not broke don't fix it. Marvel(X-men) could easily become say My Hero Academia but there is no guarantee that it would work long term. So there is no reason for them to change the status quo. It is reason Batman never gets a power suit, Peter Parker never gets established and X-men are always hated and feared. It guarantees a familiar popular state but it also kills progression forward for example Extremis Iron Man and current Immortal Hulk are a logical step forward that are popular but it will never stick because it is not original/traditional form of the character. The best you can hope for big status quo change for awhile like the Initiative or this current X-men run. But almost 99% percent time even if the change is good tradition wins out and they will change back.

    Theoretically, a big status quo change can become permanent if it is really really popular but I can't think off the top of my head too many that have stuck around. I would have loved The Initiative to stick around because I think it basically what a modern take on the superhero universe should look like today it was basically Marvel take MHA. This current take on X-men is a little too sci-fi based but based on the size of the X-men now the school/mansion does not make any sense anymore. The X-men is more suited for Utopia, Genosha and Krakoa size group structure with the X-men protecting a group of mutants and humans. I think the toned-down version of Hickman X-men have a city like a District X(krakoa style high population mutants) but also humans in the US. I know they will end back up at the mansion at some point I think X-men has grown past the small group of rogue superheroes.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Why can’t Marvel just allow the X-men to go beyond itself premise just this once and showcase a world where mutants are accepted by humanity or at the very least showcase a world without the X-men in it ?

    At the very least show a Marvel Universe without the X-men for once right ?
    Because that's not how it works in real life lol

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    I think the new Hickman run does a good job at updating the premise. The idea of humans, mutants, and non-mutant superpowered beings existing in a world together that's constantly vying for power is interesting, especially when the historically-discriminated mutants are set to be the new dominated species. Suddenly, humans have a very real reason to fear mutants, and when the mutants fully know and take advantage for their survival, the fear of extinction is justified. Yet, the mutants can't really be blamed after all they went through, at the hands of humankind, with the numerous genocides, "cures", and just mass discrimination for the longest time, any mutant would want this. They paint humankind as all bad, which might seem harsh, but can you blame them?

    At the same time, there's the factor of the non-mutant supers, or mutates. They exist outside of mutant culture, and thus like humans aren't allowed on Krakoa. Just look at Cyclops shutting up Invisible Woman by pointing out the mutant discrimination versus her privilege of not being one. She knows on some level, he's right, even if she doesn't approve of the methods. Also, consider that even former non-mutant X-Men aren't allowed on Krakoa. They're looking out for themselves before their friends.

    The overall gray morality and ambiguity is very fascinating to watch unfold. It really beats the old "humans hate mutants and constantly try to kill them" method that's been going on for too long with little variation.

    You might say it didn't "grow" past the premise, but HoX/PoX modernizes it pretty well.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    The simple answer is Status Quo Is God. Characters will never be allowed to evolve past a certain point, and will always snap back because we can't have characters change. And if they DO change, then the next writer or editor to come in will force the characters to revert back to the status they grew up with 'cause Muh Nustalgiaz.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  9. #9
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    They grew beyond their premise from the start for their adventures. People nowadays just don’t seem to understand that.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  10. #10
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Stuff like Immortal Hulk can stick because it's not changing the core concept. It's tweaking it into a new direction that could live or die later. Changes stick all the time. But every franchise has its constants. Opressed mutants is one of them. The setting for those stories is not.

  11. #11
    Amazing Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    If I were a mutant in the MU, people would shout “Ah! A mutant!” And I’d say “Nah.. I got bit by a radioactive otter.” or “I got doused by alien gas” And they’d probably be cool with it. Stop setting yourself up for discrimination if you don’t have to.

    Edit: and I’m not comparing this to racial or sexuality discrimination. Having powers is having powers. People don’t need to know how you got them. One road leads to hardship, the other could lead to fame and people loving you.
    Last edited by Thundershot; 09-19-2019 at 06:47 AM.

  12. #12
    Incredible Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    If I were a mutant in the MU, people would shout “Ah! A mutant!” And I’d say “Nah.. I got bit by a radioactive otter.” or “I got doused by alien gas” And they’d probably be cool with it. Stop setting yourself up for discrimination if you don’t have to.
    I'm not a Jew, I'm just lapsed gentile.

  13. #13
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I think the new Hickman run does a good job at updating the premise. The idea of humans, mutants, and non-mutant superpowered beings existing in a world together that's constantly vying for power is interesting, especially when the historically-discriminated mutants are set to be the new dominated species. Suddenly, humans have a very real reason to fear mutants, and when the mutants fully know and take advantage for their survival, the fear of extinction is justified. Yet, the mutants can't really be blamed after all they went through, at the hands of humankind, with the numerous genocides, "cures", and just mass discrimination for the longest time, any mutant would want this. They paint humankind as all bad, which might seem harsh, but can you blame them?

    At the same time, there's the factor of the non-mutant supers, or mutates. They exist outside of mutant culture, and thus like humans aren't allowed on Krakoa. Just look at Cyclops shutting up Invisible Woman by pointing out the mutant discrimination versus her privilege of not being one. She knows on some level, he's right, even if she doesn't approve of the methods. Also, consider that even former non-mutant X-Men aren't allowed on Krakoa. They're looking out for themselves before their friends.

    The overall gray morality and ambiguity is very fascinating to watch unfold. It really beats the old "humans hate mutants and constantly try to kill them" method that's been going on for too long with little variation.

    You might say it didn't "grow" past the premise, but HoX/PoX modernizes it pretty well.
    I find that this bit may end up biting them in the end as they don’t care whether you were sympathetic towards their cause or tormented them, if you aren’t a mutant, you don’t really matter. Discrimination doesn’t give you the right to treat even those who were kind to you as lower than yourself when you’re in a position of power. There has already been the sign of this shown with Karima who had been a good friend and ally of theirs but when confronted by Kurt simply told him that they had chosen their side. When you rise up that high, you’ve got even further to fall and when the chickens come home to roost, the X-Men May find themselves with less allies than they had before.
    Last edited by Kurolegacy; 09-19-2019 at 06:45 AM.

  14. #14
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    If they grow beyond the original premise then there is nothing to distinguish them from the Avengers.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    If they grow beyond the original premise then there is nothing to distinguish them from the Avengers.
    Exactly. Mutant-kind as a mirror to society's discrimination is the whole point to these books, has been since the 1960's, and will be till the 3060's.

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