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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    If I were a mutant in the MU, people would shout “Ah! A mutant!” And I’d say “Nah.. I got bit by a radioactive otter.” or “I got doused by alien gas” And they’d probably be cool with it. Stop setting yourself up for discrimination if you don’t have to.

    Edit: and I’m not comparing this to racial or sexuality discrimination. Having powers is having powers. People don’t need to know how you got them. One road leads to hardship, the other could lead to fame and people loving you.
    So basically you would deny who and what you are just for money and to get other people to love you? Well okay.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    If I were a mutant in the MU, people would shout “Ah! A mutant!” And I’d say “Nah.. I got bit by a radioactive otter.” or “I got doused by alien gas” And they’d probably be cool with it. Stop setting yourself up for discrimination if you don’t have to.

    Edit: and I’m not comparing this to racial or sexuality discrimination. Having powers is having powers. People don’t need to know how you got them. One road leads to hardship, the other could lead to fame and people loving you.
    I don't think "having powers is just having powers" is that simple in a world full of different superpowered origins. Being a mutant isn't just the powers, it's who you are.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    If they grow beyond the original premise then there is nothing to distinguish them from the Avengers.
    I think don't that part is true, I think that is the most frustrating part of the X-men books today, The X-men can be established like loved and heroes in a world with people who hate them. The example I give is the US and X-men are the equivalents of black and minority celebrities and athletes. You can imagine a Mexican baseball player was the MVP and the most popular in baseball today. The Mexican player would get love almost everywhere that he would go but he could still get pulled over by police and questioned if he belongs in this country. He could still get harassed by people in the store if he talks Spanish to someone.

    X-men isn't doing a good job reflecting the world at least from a US perspective. The X-men could be love in North and hated in the South, The X-men could be treated decently in the US, And hated in Russia and South America. The X-men could be themselves could be liked but regular mutants, in general, have it harder, And mutants who look like Morlocks have it even harder. The X-men need to grow beyond this extreme world persecution stage. The X-men could be Rockstars AND treated like second class at the same time in situtions. And that is where diversity in hiring comes in because it takes living as a minority to truely get that nuance it seems.The Logical growth of the X-men is be apart from humans because of the stories they have told.

    The X-men could be the Avengers but Captian America doesn't get pulled over by cops when he is off duty,The X-men that happens to them

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I don't think "having powers is just having powers" is that simple in a world full of different superpowered origins. Being a mutant isn't just the powers, it's who you are.
    Especially when his own premise says that a person went "ah a mutant." so unless they saw the person use their powers or they looked like a mutant, how did they know he was different to where he had to make up a lie about who he really was.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I think don't that part is true, I think that is the most frustrating part of the X-men books today, The X-men can be established like loved and heroes in a world with people who hate them. The example I give is the US and X-men are the equivalents of black and minority celebrities and athletes. You can imagine a Mexican baseball player was the MVP and the most popular in baseball today. The Mexican player would get love almost everywhere that he would go but he could still get pulled over by police and questioned if he belongs in this country. He could still get harassed by people in the store if he talks Spanish to someone.

    X-men isn't doing a good job reflecting the world at least from a US perspective. The X-men could be love in North and hated in the South, The X-men could be treated decently in the US, And hated in Russia and South America. The X-men could be themselves could be liked but regular mutants, in general, have it harder, And mutants who look like Morlocks have it even harder. The X-men need to grow beyond this extreme world persecution stage. The X-men could be Rockstars AND treated like second class at the same time in situtions. And that is where diversity in hiring comes in because it takes living as a minority to truely get that nuance it seems.The Logical growth of the X-men is be apart from humans because of the stories they have told.

    The X-men could be the Avengers but Captian America doesn't get pulled over by cops when he is off duty
    Yeah, true. As much as I defend that it's not a plot hole, sometimes I wish there was more nuance to it. Racism isn't just outright persecution and murderous hatred, but it comes in many "flavors".

    Some I'd like to see:
    • Having anti-mutants who are completely obliviously to being anti-mutant. They'll act nice to a mutant, even befriend them, but will be blind to how offensive they act otherwise.
    • Famous people who use "well, my son is a mutant! I want progression!" without actually meaning it, to gain favor with the mutant populace and get political power.
    • Comments with good intentions but racist undertones like "You're awesome, and you prove that mutants aren't all bad."
    • People who don't mind mutants, so long as they "don't make a big deal about it".
    • Condescending compassion, those who feel sorry for mutants and help them, mainly because they view them like endangered animals and less as people.
    • Have certain mutants, like the X-Men, be liked, but the general idea is that they're the exception and not the rule.
    • Individuals who justify their racism by pointing out what mutants can do, while insisting they are in no way prejudiced against them on their own merit.

    Just some examples. I think it'd be refreshing to see it be more modern, with different kinds of racism depending on the individual, and the area of acceptance (like North vs. South), though I think Hickman's take is a step in the right direction (because the prospect of mutants taking over the world and killing/enslaving everyone, even if they don't hate mutants, would give anyone reason to fear them).

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I think don't that part is true, I think that is the most frustrating part of the X-men books today, The X-men can be established like loved and heroes in a world with people who hate them. The example I give is the US and X-men are the equivalents of black and minority celebrities and athletes. You can imagine a Mexican baseball player was the MVP and the most popular in baseball today. The Mexican player would get love almost everywhere that he would go but he could still get pulled over by police and questioned if he belongs in this country. He could still get harassed by people in the store if he talks Spanish to someone.

    X-men isn't doing a good job reflecting the world at least from a US perspective. The X-men could be love in North and hated in the South, The X-men could be treated decently in the US, And hated in Russia and South America. The X-men could be themselves could be liked but regular mutants, in general, have it harder, And mutants who look like Morlocks have it even harder. The X-men need to grow beyond this extreme world persecution stage. The X-men could be Rockstars AND treated like second class at the same time in situtions. And that is where diversity in hiring comes in because it takes living as a minority to truely get that nuance it seems.The Logical growth of the X-men is be apart from humans because of the stories they have told.

    The X-men could be the Avengers but Captian America doesn't get pulled over by cops when he is off duty,The X-men that happens to them
    The United States is a perfect example of the fear of the other. Look how paranoid everyone got over a caravan of impoverished poor people. Those people never posed a threat to the United States, they weren't even going to try and rush the border, they intended all along to go to the processing office and stand in line hoping to be granted asylum to the United States. You don't sneak into the United States walking with a bunch of refugees in a caravan. You get into Mexico and pay some people to help you across the border.

    African Americans are still treated horribly in a lot of parts of the United States and they are frigging citizens. There are people in the US screaming for Alexandria Occasio Cortez to go home to her country when she is 3rd generation American. That doesn't even include the people who scream that she is the anti-Christ who wants to turn American into Venezuela and talking about having her killed.

    My own cousin here in Canada goes on the most vile rants against Muslims that I have ever heard. I don't think a Muslim has ever personally done anything to him in his entire life but he blames them for taking his job, taking his taxes, taking his livelihood, etc.. etc.. etc.. I can't even talk to him anymore, he makes me feel sick inside because the hate that emanates from him actually feels evil. It feels evil!

    Mutants are even more "other" than any race we have in our world. Not only do some of them look like normal people, they can hide among you. Some of them even say they are superior to "us normal humans". They are weird, they want to eat our children, they want to take our women (Logan definitely does), they have strange powers, they are going to kill us all... And so the cycle of racism spins itself, it spins amount all these people who probably hated anyone "other" to begin with, but it escalates until you have groups like the Friends of Humanity, and the Purifiers which are no different than the Aryan Nations and the Klu Klux Clan, or the Westboro Baptist Church.

    Anyone who says Racism isn't that bad hasn't looked close enough, the undercurrent of racism running through lots of countries in the world, the rise of fascist movements, this is all so similar to the 1930's when fascism was rising in Germany, Spain, Italy, Japan, and even in the United States. The United States tried to stay out of the war with Germany because there was actually a lot of people in the US who thought the Nazi's were right.

    20000 people went to the Nazi Rally in New York
    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...-square-garden

  7. #22
    Incredible Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Yeah, true. As much as I defend that it's not a plot hole, sometimes I wish there was more nuance to it. Racism isn't just outright persecution and murderous hatred, but it comes in many "flavors".
    Agreed. Nuance in everything would be welcome for me. Humans. Mutants. They should all be presented with a much wider range, but that seems too hard for the comics these days.

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member ComeOnBunny's Avatar
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    Because it doesn't sell so no one to blame but the fans really.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Because that's not how it works in real life lol
    I totally get allowing the ugly aspects of bad treatment towards minorities being shown in X-Men, though that being said, I think it's reasonable enough to say that even real life, in 2019, has minorities being treated considerably better than how mutants are treated in modern X-Men. I've just begun to feel that it has become more and more of a stretch to claim that the mutants are a close parallel towards real life minorities. Again, you show the bad, and even the ugly, but there's also a responsible way to show the good too, and even in all the way back in X-Men #1, despite being in a world that has fear, it also shows a general that gives them the credit and honor they deserve for saving the day.

    Last edited by Electricmastro; 09-19-2019 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #25
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    In my opinion this goes at least as far back as the Bob Harras era, when he decided that the space-travel aspects of the X-Men, like the Shi'ar, didn't belong in the X-Men and moved them over to the Avengers instead.

    In the Claremont/Byrne era, famously, most stories had nothing to do with anti-mutant prejudice (just Days of Future Past, really) and they felt free to do pretty much any type of story in the X-Men and bring in villains who had nothing to do with mutant issues.

    At some point, while this didn't completely disappear (in part because any non-mutant character introduced by Claremont is sort of grandfathered in), the focus shifted more to the idea of the book not just being about mutants but building most stories around issues that are specific to mutants. Which helps it stand out from the rest of the line but does inevitably lead to a narrow premise.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    In my opinion this goes at least as far back as the Bob Harras era, when he decided that the space-travel aspects of the X-Men, like the Shi'ar, didn't belong in the X-Men and moved them over to the Avengers instead.

    In the Claremont/Byrne era, famously, most stories had nothing to do with anti-mutant prejudice (just Days of Future Past, really) and they felt free to do pretty much any type of story in the X-Men and bring in villains who had nothing to do with mutant issues.

    At some point, while this didn't completely disappear (in part because any non-mutant character introduced by Claremont is sort of grandfathered in), the focus shifted more to the idea of the book not just being about mutants but building most stories around issues that are specific to mutants. Which helps it stand out from the rest of the line but does inevitably lead to a narrow premise.
    Yeah, even Claremont did things like have a fairy tale be told with X-Men characters in Uncanny X-Men #153, and further emphasizes on the variety of stories being told in general by having Kitty say "And now for something completely different!" It's definitely possible to focus on having anti-mutant prejudice in stories while not narrowing the premise.

    Last edited by Electricmastro; 09-19-2019 at 12:09 PM.

  12. #27
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    There's an upcoming X-book about magic and an upcoming X-book set in space. People see what they want to see.

  13. #28
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    I believe they alredy did grow beyond its premise.Like other have said we X-men stories about space travel,alien species,magic,time travel,other dimensions and have hit many topics beyond discrimination like love,marriage,religion,family issues,frienship and etc....

  14. #29
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Because: they don't NEED to.
    Yes...we cal all agree that the past decade plus has been seen some of the worst X-stories ever told and the entire franchise has been stagnant and directionless, but that is all on the shoulders of the Editors and Writers who simply lacked vision and foresight and imagination.
    In comes HiX-Man with a forward-thinking plan, imagination galore, and 20/20 vision...using the very same premise on which the X-Men was founded...et voila! HoX, PoX, DoX (Not unlike what Morrison did during his X-tenure as writer, I'll point out here)
    So tell me...is it the premise that needs changing or, is it those who manage and direct the franchise?

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