While Ben Reilly does have his own soul we also have confirmation from Death that when the Jackal cloned him after his death that Ben's soul was brought back to life in his clones repeatedly so we know that in the marvel universe it is possible for souls of originals to be resurrected into their clones.
Last edited by Tasuxeda; 09-21-2019 at 09:08 AM.
But the question is if this is a process they're actually using here. And I'm not sure it is. And there are plenty of reasons it isn't.
Yes, it's been confirmed that all of the deaths from AoX and Rosenberg's massacre were done with the idea that Hickman was going to reset the board anyways.
That being said, it seems to me that Hickman may have had a hand in at least some of the events in those books. Putting Evan on Apocalypse's team then means that now, Hickman doesn't have to worry about introducing them.
Actually the main reason for thinking that marvel will have the original soul return to life in their clones is the same reason they likely had Death show up and confirm that Ben's soul had been resurrected multiple times, so they could try and convince fans that don't think that the Ben in that series was the original that he was and its the same with the x-men they likely want fans to continue to consider these copies as the original.
This is speculative fiction, not a office job. Your analogy misses the point. Imagine you had a way of precisely copying that document such that nobody, not even you could tell which was original. Then shuffle them a few times. Then burn one. Now when somebody wants the original you give them what you have. There is no difference, so what’s the problem?
We renew the cells in our body constantly. Many signs of ageing are evidence of the replication slowly degrading. None of us are precisely the same person at any one time.
So if physicality doesn’t define us we are left with consciousness. That’s pretty much it. Many cultures have defined the soul as consciousness, not some ethereal indivisible thing. So now we are into philosophy. A materialist would categorically state that we are just matter and that even consciousness is just a physical process. They would struggle to define what individuality is anyway if an exact replica was created, because same matter is same person. I would imagine Hickman is a materialist. I can’t imagine him believing in souls based on his stories.
Some science philosophy suggests all arrangements of matter coexist independently and what we perceive as time and continuity, as cause and effect, is just us joining these dots together. In that regard there is no such thing as individuality but instead it is an illusion unique to the conscious. Or to put that a more fun way, go and read Permutation City and then we can discuss if there is such a thing as a non-mystical or secular soul. Or read up on the Boltzmann brain.
I don’t believe in souls, so for me bringing Nightcrawler back from the edge of Heaven was not my idea of a good story. Doesn’t make it a bad story. But it does make this form of resurrection much more palatable.
Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-21-2019 at 12:00 PM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
I'm still pissy that PAD messed up Clone Conspiracy's ambiguity because he can't stop writing about the same 10 things from the 90's.
I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate
Interesting things and hmmm...
Hickman really like the smote palate. And I do too. Smoldering. Heaps of embers. The mound.
Brooding on edges. Page tuner.
Isn't it possible, regardless of one's belief, that 'belief' exits in the other and doesn't require belief to believe in itself as 'belief'.
Maybe that's how it is. If it is. While it is. Or isn't while being.
It's meaning. It's memory. It's a message board. A 'you want me to build a what' said Noah. Or Ishamel holding a plank. "A What?"
Me? Okay so call me X.
Then listen.
And hope you hear "Hi X"
in passing.
A genetic code. It's sphere. As it bumps...blends...bubbles...spins etc. In narrative and story an 'experience' of Heaven (for instance) for Nightcrawler could be the influence of a life on lives could be the 'speaking' death in the conversation of the living...the archive of identity...the vessel...oh, I don't know the physics...what it is, could be this 'cultish' quality of Hickman's societal constructions (in East of West) in his conspiracy secret orders in Secret Wars in his somewhat cold reading of people and society is inherently unconsciously within a sphere of belief...within which the artist, by making a bubble, a bag in the aquarium, an aquarium on the mantle overlooking the sea...is capable of disbelief, without asphyxiation.
I think of how society and story must have already existed before either had been understood. As a tree was a tree before it was named. As with the X-Books and not outside them, the pieces of the whole (Nightcrawler's soul) are set, a table of elements, that reincarnation is one way of answering a prayer...of validating time spent at play...and that extinction is a powerful means for beginning a story...how post-(the given) is utterly contemporary and over the edge...how the best and most effective means for 'a future' is in golden eggs, or 'golden paradise' - in the winglessness darkness...
A speech bubble. A panel.
X is used in mathematics, and maps, stories of treasures, but also in marking a thing WRONG...or a box as chosen.
X is a value, yet to be =
even after it's given
it retains it's origin
of being held
to hatch
...Ripley's cracked helmet for example
or dawn...
what if society is actually simple cells
where saints wear habits
and eventually go crazy
working in the sun
seeping through the bars
like colors
without their hoods on
talking with birds
or a sentient island
that held the old team to form the new team to get the new team and then....because an island can...and isn't an island to the earth...adapt an ever more interesting and complex language for netting the next fly...
the patience of a spider...
to fly on electricity in the sky, with a tiny silken ballon...
or speech bubble!
you could easily make an X in any =
when we say the life of a body (within a body)...we get something back
static cling...or the way a ring...is in a bell...or a cell phone...iphone...android...with no bell...nobody answers right?
just teXt
Last edited by sungila; 09-21-2019 at 11:50 AM.
“The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote
They actually say in the issue that they’re putting each mutant’s soul back in their body! There is no indication that we are meant to doubt that! I don’t think Hickman is presently too concerned with the spiritual/supernatural side of the nature of personhood in the Marvel universe, but he did anticipate those concerns enough to include that language as an olive branch. If plenty of clones and androids in the past have been *retroactively* confirmed to have souls, I think we can trust this, the most thorough explanation of a resurrection I’ve ever seen, which says up front that it grants them a soul.
The point I was trying to make was that the Cyclops who died on Sol's Hammer is never going to marry Jean or see their children grow up. That Cyclops' existence has ended. The Scott Summers who Xavier resurrected is perhaps a perfect copy of the original, but he is still a copy even if for the X-Men he is for all intents and purposes the same Scott Summers they know and love. So, nobody is ever missed because everybody can be replaced.
I'll keep my mind open, but I still don't buy what Magneto and Xavier are selling. I think what we forget is that this process has to work the way they are selling it or else people won't believe it. Magneto is certainly not going to admit to Lorna that things aren't right.
Last edited by Marvelman; 09-21-2019 at 11:38 PM.