Thoughts on RessurXion

[Marvelman]

There are a number of things that trouble me about the X-Men's ability to resurrect themselves. So much so I think the topic merits its own thread. But, let me focus on the thing that confuses and alarms me the most.

What Professor X via Cerebro implants into an embryo is a "copy" of that mutants consciousness, or animus as it is called in House of X #5. But, it is not the original. For example, the consciousness of the Cyclops who died on Sol's Hammer ended when Cyclops died. The consciousness of Cyclops #2 is not contiguous with the consciousness of Cyclops #1. So, what died on Sol's Hammer wasn't just a body but a unique consciousness as well. This was not a case of Cyclops' soul leaving his old body and migrating through space to possess a new one. So, the new Cyclops is a perfect copy of the old Cyclops, but he is not the original Cyclops. There was a unique being whose existence ended on Sol's Hammer.

Here's what bothers me. The mutants seem oblivious to the fact that the Scott Summers they knew and loved is dead, or they just plain don't care as he has been replaced by a perfect copy of himself. People die and nobody cares. Does that freak anybody else out?

Or, have I misunderstood what Hickman intended? Does the Cyclops clone actually contain the "soul" of the original Scott Summers? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

[Wiccan]

I also kinda feel like they're not reeeaally the originals? I think the word soul is used, but they seem to just be calling their mind backup that comes with their personality and memories as their soul, not the usual concept of soul...

But honestly, it doesn't quite bother me in a way? Like, at the end it doesn't really mean much imo. They look the same, act the same, and remember everything from their previous life/lives. So it's essentially them. I think that's Hickman's POV too with the way he handled it.

[xiyon]

There are a number of things that trouble me about the X-Men's ability to resurrect themselves. So much so I think the topic merits its own thread. But, let me focus on the thing that confuses and alarms me the most.

What Professor X via Cerebro implants into an embryo is a "copy" of that mutants consciousness, or animus as it is called in House of X #5. But, it is not the original. For example, the consciousness of the Cyclops who died on Sol's Hammer ended when Cyclops died. The consciousness of Cyclops #2 is not contiguous with the consciousness of Cyclops #1. So, what died on Sol's Hammer wasn't just a body but a unique consciousness as well. This was not a case of Cyclops' soul leaving his old body and migrating through space to possess a new one. So, the new Cyclops is a perfect copy of the old Cyclops, but he is not the original Cyclops. There was a unique being whose existence ended on Sol's Hammer.

Here's what bothers me. The mutants seem oblivious to the fact that the Scott Summers they knew and loved is dead, or they just plain don't care as he has been replaced by a perfect copy of himself. People die and nobody cares. Does that freak anybody else out?

Or, have I misunderstood what Hickman intended? Does the Cyclops clone actually contain the "soul" of the original Scott Summers? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

I think it is supposed to be unsettling, and whether readers believe the resurrected mutant is a clone or not will be debated for a long, long time until the story ends. In discussion with a friend of mine when the book came out, we bounced off ideas how we think this will end: with the "original" X-Men i.e. one-eyed Cyclops and crew waking up from whatever place they've been held and joining the fight against the Krakoans. Because, really, it is very easy to use the excuse that Xavier has been planting subliminal messages into everyone or even that Nu/Resurrected!Jean could have telepathically manipulated Storm into her subsequent declaration in HoX#5.

Regardless, I'm all-for the current status quo because of all the stories it can tell, as well as the possibility of bringing back characters who were previously axed by plot-induced stupidity.

[Zaja]

I'm going to post my comment from the HoX #5 Thread.

I do not consider the beings born from Goldball eggs the 'real deal'. However, this does not mean that their lives have no value or that they are less than their peers not yet dead and resurrected.

I see them as a backup file of a document that has been deleted. The original has been lost and is in the trash, but for all intents and purposes, the copy is still the same file.

[RamaBird]

I think people are getting way ahead of themselves and I think it's pretty obvious Hickman is aware that he's doing some very risky things (hence the maybe 11th life being an out if reaction is negative to Dawn of X).

To answer the question though, no, I do think they lose something each time. Those moments between when they die and when they are revived leaves a lot to be asked. Tome, they lose just enough of themselves where over time it could go wrong. They should've had a character whose power was to capture souls the minute they leave their host bodies to get around this (hey Sapna could've worked here haha). But I also think this can all be undone by next issue when it's revealed what Sinister truly did. Maybe the perfect clones turn into monsters? Mutants then destroy the world hence an 11th life being needed? Hickman has a lot of outs to undo anything he's doing if it doesnt work out right.

Same thing with the 5. People are acting like it ruins death forever when I bet you those 5 are gonna go through Hell. One will get killed eventually and they'll get around that somehow and then unstable mostly villain Proteus will be used as an out to totally end that story (they already set up the maintenance he requires to remain sane with the clone Xaviers story).

[Marvelman]

I think people are getting way ahead of themselves and I think it's pretty obvious Hickman is aware that he's doing some very risky things (hence the maybe 11th life being an out if reaction is negative to Dawn of X).

To answer the question though, no, I do think they lose something each time. Those moments between when they die and when they are revived leaves a lot to be asked. Tome, they lose just enough of themselves where over time it could go wrong. They should've had a character whose power was to capture souls the minute they leave their host bodies to get around this (hey Sapna could've worked here haha). But I also think this can all be undone by next issue when it's revealed what Sinister truly did. Maybe the perfect clones turn into monsters? Mutants then destroy the world hence an 11th life being needed? Hickman has a lot of outs to undo anything he's doing if it doesnt work out right.

Same thing with the 5. People are acting like it ruins death forever when I bet you those 5 are gonna go through Hell. One will get killed eventually and they'll get around that somehow and then unstable mostly villain Proteus will be used as an out to totally end that story (they already set up the maintenance he requires to remain sane with the clone Xaviers story).

What I would like to see going forward is to have at least one X-Man who takes a more skeptical view of Xavier and what he is doing. It sounds like a job for Kitty!

[Rosebunse]

I've been comparing it to Loki's method of reincarnation. It's based around the idea that the personality is a copy, but as we see with Loki, that copy can and will be corrupted by simple circumstance and the different experience each individual faces. Plus, I can certainly see why Xavier and Magneto might want to avoid even considering souls, not just for practicality but because of the fact how many people would notice even faster. Magic users, demons, a host of people would notice if a bunch of souls just went back and forth.

[xiyon]

I think people are getting way ahead of themselves and I think it's pretty obvious Hickman is aware that he's doing some very risky things (hence the maybe 11th life being an out if reaction is negative to Dawn of X).

To answer the question though, no, I do think they lose something each time. Those moments between when they die and when they are revived leaves a lot to be asked. Tome, they lose just enough of themselves where over time it could go wrong. They should've had a character whose power was to capture souls the minute they leave their host bodies to get around this (hey Sapna could've worked here haha). But I also think this can all be undone by next issue when it's revealed what Sinister truly did. Maybe the perfect clones turn into monsters? Mutants then destroy the world hence an 11th life being needed? Hickman has a lot of outs to undo anything he's doing if it doesnt work out right.

Same thing with the 5. People are acting like it ruins death forever when I bet you those 5 are gonna go through Hell. One will get killed eventually and they'll get around that somehow and then unstable mostly villain Proteus will be used as an out to totally end that story (they already set up the maintenance he requires to remain sane with the clone Xaviers story).

Indeed. I'm enjoying Elixir's return to prominence / fulfilling his potential, and tolerant of everyone else, but there's no way their stories are gonna end prettily.

[Killerbee911]

So here is the important things

1.Anima originated from Latin, and was originally used to describe ideas such as breath, soul, spirit or vital force

2. Direct quote from the book The first thing was copying the mind "the essence" "The anima" of any mutant found ... So that one day he could put the soul back into it mutant shell

3. Cyclops, Jean Grey, NightCrawler, Wolverine, etc have all come back from the dead. So if you accept them coming back as "originals" then you believe their essence can be put back in a body. Jean Grey and Psylocke have examples of them recreating their body psionically/telepathically what is are they now?

Hickman is playing around a little with the concept of what is a soul imo. People have in their head your soul functionally is a ghost essence that leaves your that leaves your body when you die. Hickman, as I understand saying your soul, is your mind. If you believe in basically a spirit essence you might not think these are the original. If you believe the mind is your essence then this is the same person. I will put it like this Cyclops body was dying and he created a husk and transfer his mind through a machine. You would say that is the original cyclops. If Cyclops transfer his mind to a machine that could hold it and his body died, They create an exact copy of his mind and instead of using the original put the copy in his body and revived it. Is that Cyclops? All I can do is suggest watching Alter Carbon on Netflix that covers this concept in very interesting way.

[jwatson]

There are a number of things that trouble me about the X-Men's ability to resurrect themselves. So much so I think the topic merits its own thread. But, let me focus on the thing that confuses and alarms me the most.

What Professor X via Cerebro implants into an embryo is a "copy" of that mutants consciousness, or animus as it is called in House of X #5. But, it is not the original. For example, the consciousness of the Cyclops who died on Sol's Hammer ended when Cyclops died. The consciousness of Cyclops #2 is not contiguous with the consciousness of Cyclops #1. So, what died on Sol's Hammer wasn't just a body but a unique consciousness as well. This was not a case of Cyclops' soul leaving his old body and migrating through space to possess a new one. So, the new Cyclops is a perfect copy of the old Cyclops, but he is not the original Cyclops. There was a unique being whose existence ended on Sol's Hammer.

Here's what bothers me. The mutants seem oblivious to the fact that the Scott Summers they knew and loved is dead, or they just plain don't care as he has been replaced by a perfect copy of himself. People die and nobody cares. Does that freak anybody else out?

Or, have I misunderstood what Hickman intended? Does the Cyclops clone actually contain the "soul" of the original Scott Summers? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

But if that's the case then Scott been dead so does it matter. He died dur to the gas so whatever cable brought back with the Phoenix shard isn't Scott anyway since that consciousness already left that body. Storm and the seige perilus group are dead because though they were resurrected their consciousness had to leave their bodies even for 10 minutes. Nightcrawler is a fake. Colossus died so he must be a fake to, the real Colossus died from the legacy virus. Jean died when she reconstructed herself. Mr. Immortal must have like a thousand consciousnesses out there somewhere. Xavier been dead for decades. Everybody's dead and nothing is original.

[jpmst17]

I think the mind makes the person, not the body. Xavier "downloaded" the latest version of the character before they went on the mission. I just accept that it is still them. Scott even asked if they succeeded, so if he lost anything, it was just the mission stuff, which i can deal with

[WeaponX]

I think the mind makes the person, not the body. Xavier "downloaded" the latest version of the character before they went on the mission. I just accept that it is still them. Scott even asked if they succeeded, so if he lost anything, it was just the mission stuff, which i can deal with

To me that proves it’s just a copy. Original Scott knows what happened on that mission.

[jpmst17]

To me that proves it’s just a copy. Original Scott knows what happened on that mission.

but "original" Scott is not around anymore. So this is essentially the same guy, except he doesn't know what happened 20 minutes ago.

[Big Joe]

I first have to say that I loved it, the issue was really good, extremely clever and made use of some great characters that nobody could have expected. From looking at this board I'm also not the only one who was moved by it (either love or hate, there are reactions either way). fascinating that it has thrown up so many interesting questions of cloning and ethics etc.

Here's one more: I think that something is being removed from the consciousness of each of the clones (or whatever we're calling them), because it's so obvious that Xavier is acting strangely that someone would at least question what's going on. I really wonder whether an essential part of them is being stripped when they are imprinted into the new body, and also whether there is some mild sort of control being exerted on those who haven't died, or maybe did die before Age of X-Man.

The whole Xavier thing is, obviously quite deliberately, very unsettling.

[WeaponX]

but "original" Scott is not around anymore. So this is essentially the same guy, except he doesn't know what happened 20 minutes ago.

No essentially it’s a completely new person with the old ones memories implanted into them. I’ll ask this way if they offered you this process to get into a new body that will age super slow would you do it. Oh by the way we’ll download your Brain Monday but make the switch that Wednesday.