Thoughts on RessurXion

[JKtheMac]

They actually say in the issue that they’re putting each mutant’s soul back in their body! There is no indication that we are meant to doubt that! I don’t think Hickman is presently too concerned with the spiritual/supernatural side of the nature of personhood in the Marvel universe, but he did anticipate those concerns enough to include that language as an olive branch. If plenty of clones and androids in the past have been *retroactively* confirmed to have souls, I think we can trust this, the most thorough explanation of a resurrection I’ve ever seen, which says up front that it grants them a soul.

Precisely so. You say it better than me but in my words this is a materialist acknowledging the Mind-Body Dualism of many past comics. Ultimately he is providing a materialist solution in a wrapper that is designed to placate those who don’t share his philosophy. He hand-waves just enough that the majority of readers will just go with it.

I'll keep my mind open, but I still don't buy what Magneto and Xavier are selling. I think what we forget is that this process has to work the way they are selling it or else people won't believe it. Magneto is certainly not going to admit to Lorna that things aren't right.

I think what you are picking up on is the way Storm is literally selling the idea of resurrection to the crowd. We have already seen something similar with The Church of the Ascendancy. This is culture building. No surprise that this story is called Society.

Xavier is selling the idea of individuality and resurrection to a crowd that might question it. Clearly Storm has bought into the importance of this. Is it a lie? Yes, because all cultural values are lies. Undercutting the individuality / indivisible philosophy is the file that points out this process can create viable duplicates. Nobody is shouting that from the steps. That is hidden under the Force Conventions.

[ThePhoenix]

I don't think that's how resurrection works in House of X. That's the problem.

The problem is how you think it works Hickman wants it to work that way but you don't want to accept it. That's not a problem for the story but your way of thining is the problem.

[JKtheMac]

The problem is how you think it works Hickman wants it to work that way but you don't want to accept it. That's not a problem for the story but your way of thining is the problem.

To try and mediate here, Hickman seems aware that this is not standard and easy to accept for some. It isn’t a writer’s job to present a story that pleases everyone. He has picked a premise. We don’t have to accept that premise, but to not do so will cause us problems.

The biggest challenge Hickman faces is not whether we accept the premise, but the fact that so much of his story so far is unrevealed. This makes us question everything. It is only natural that some would question this resurrection process. I believe Hickman has very deliberately written this issue to make it clear he isn’t hiding anything, but those who remain skeptical will probably need the story to resolve first.

It is similar to the problem of whether this is all happening in the prime universe and not a timeline that Moira may reset. Again, all will become clear once the story resolves, presumably in the next three weeks as HoX/PoX finishes. By then we will be able to look back and see exactly what the new status quo is.

[sungila]

Isn't this just Sinister.

All of it.

Sinister in the system
as a means for 'survival'

even if it's insane.


"nice cape..."

[Marvelman]

The problem is how you think it works Hickman wants it to work that way but you don't want to accept it. That's not a problem for the story but your way of thining is the problem.

I'm not denying that. I do have a tendency to over-think things. But, in fairness to myself, is it credible that nobody on Krakoa would be uncomfortable with ressurXion? We don't know - yet. But it would make for an interesting story.

[Tasuxeda]

This is the marvel universe and these are the X-men they have died and came back from the dead before and chances are that most mutants will have already made up their minds whether they consider the x-men that have come back from the dead to be the real deal or not and these that don't likely don't go to the ressurXion ritual.

[JKtheMac]

I'm not denying that. I do have a tendency to over-think things. But, in fairness to myself, is it credible that nobody on Krakoa would be uncomfortable with ressurXion? We don't know - yet. But it would make for an interesting story.

It seems highly likely that something will come of this because why take the time to create the ritual at all if it’s something easy to parse. Like I said, leaving the idea of duplicates nestling in the supporting text and suggesting it would only be countenanced in the kind of extreme situations that only the Force Conventions might deal with, may be a hint that X-Force will cover some of this.

[Rosebunse]

Even if this is part of the X-Men building a culture, I don't think that it's meant to be taken without a grain of salt. And does Hickman have a positive view of religion and gods? I don't think he does. And the X-Men are now claiming to be gods.

But they are more like cavemen who have found fire. It's ot really that impressive.

[BroHomo]

Even if this is part of the X-Men building a culture, I don't think that it's meant to be taken without a grain of salt. And does Hickman have a positive view of religion and gods? I don't think he does. And the X-Men are now claiming to be gods.

But they are more like cavemen who have found fire. It's ot really that impressive.

Preeeeeetty sure Magnetos "New God's Now" didn't apply to every Mutant/X-Man and is supposed to be taken with copious grains of salt

[David Walton]

There are a number of things that trouble me about the X-Men's ability to resurrect themselves. So much so I think the topic merits its own thread. But, let me focus on the thing that confuses and alarms me the most.

What Professor X via Cerebro implants into an embryo is a "copy" of that mutants consciousness, or animus as it is called in House of X #5. But, it is not the original. For example, the consciousness of the Cyclops who died on Sol's Hammer ended when Cyclops died. The consciousness of Cyclops #2 is not contiguous with the consciousness of Cyclops #1. So, what died on Sol's Hammer wasn't just a body but a unique consciousness as well. This was not a case of Cyclops' soul leaving his old body and migrating through space to possess a new one. So, the new Cyclops is a perfect copy of the old Cyclops, but he is not the original Cyclops. There was a unique being whose existence ended on Sol's Hammer.

Here's what bothers me. The mutants seem oblivious to the fact that the Scott Summers they knew and loved is dead, or they just plain don't care as he has been replaced by a perfect copy of himself. People die and nobody cares. Does that freak anybody else out?

Or, have I misunderstood what Hickman intended? Does the Cyclops clone actually contain the "soul" of the original Scott Summers? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

A side note, in ASM Dr. Strange recently confirmed that the soul of Billy Connors (now inhabiting a clone) was indeed the real deal. So there's perhaps a broader consensus at work at Marvel right now that clone bodies can possess the authentic original soul under certain circumstances.

I think Hickman's approach builds on a framework that's already been established, since Xavier's consciousness was transferred to a cloned body after he was infected by the Brood.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

A side note, in ASM Dr. Strange recently confirmed that the soul of Billy Connors (now inhabiting a clone) was indeed the real deal. So there's perhaps a broader consensus at work at Marvel right now that clone bodies can possess the authentic original soul under certain circumstances.

I think Hickman's approach builds on a framework that's already been established, since Xavier's consciousness was transferred to a cloned body after he was infected by the Brood.

I just wonder why...when going so indepth...he didn't add a mystic or spiritual compnant

[H-E-D]

Hickman is just more of a Sci-Fi guy.

[NewMutant]

Gen X and Iceman were stellar.

Old Man Logan was decent.

Gold was generic but fun.

The rest of was bad or I was uninterested.

[Anduinel]

Hickman is just more of a Sci-Fi guy.

And the X-Men are more of a sci-fi franchise, apart from some a few magical/fantasy aspects like Magik's backstory or Dani's ties to Asgard. I think adding an overtly mystic component would have felt a little off-brand.

[TOTALITY]

That said, it wouldn’t surprise me if Hickman is going to eventually cross that magical bridge and has a way to reconcile it all with the sci-fi stuff into a cohesive mythology, especially after all the Inferno references in POX #4. And there’s a whole ongoing launching soon dedicated to “mutant magic”!

I think he just didn’t want to get into it now because it wasn’t a huge, necessary part of these resurrections as he devised them. It was enough to just handwave it like ‘yeah, and their souls are included.’