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  1. #31
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    They don't even have to kill him. Just de-power him. Wally could be Flash full time again and Barry could play the role Jay used to as the elder advisor from the sidelines.
    So ruin Barry to prop up Wally? Not good for me. Though I guess it's unsurprising that people absolutely outraged that their own fave be diminished or killed off to further another are perfectly willing to diminish or kill off others to further their own fave. At least acknowledge the hypocrisy/double-standard.

  2. #32
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    To save Superman, you have to kill Superman.

    It sounds counter-intuitive, I know. And I'm not talking about yet one more retread of Doomsday where we have some big major event centered on Superman's death. The very last thing we need is creating another endless cycle of "Can we top this" events. What Superman needs is to be taken apart in a way he hasn't been since 1986. And then put back together the way he should have been in Rebirth.

    Get a solid creative team. I'd love to get Grant Morrison but they had him in 2011 the last time it was tried and I'm not sure he'd come back or that if he did he could do much different than what he already did. But look for two creative teams that can work together while we let Bendis wrap up what he has been doing over the next 12-18 months.

    The idea is to launch a 24 issue Man of Tomorrow miniseries in April 2021 that will lay out the basic skeleton of Superman's life and world from that point forward. Not just an origin story but something like Byrne's 1986 reboot. Give us the major highlights and firsts fo Superman's life in a self-contained package.

    Establish how Clark's powers developed. Show us his first adventure(s) leading up to his going public as Superman. Develop his relationships in Metropolis as Clark with the Planet and beyond. In particular follow the development of his relationship to Lois over that time. Introduce us to Luthor, Brainiac, Mxyzptlk with a definitive version of each meeting Superman. If we are keeping the marriage and Jon (and I would) there needs to be some history shown there as well.

    And coming out of the mini have each team hit the ground telling stories about Superman but making sure that he interacts as much in his Clark ID as his Superman one. His powers should be used every issue, but not necessarily his costume. In fact, I'd strive for Clark in civilian clothes to be the 4th most common character shown (behind Superman, Lois and the villain of any arc).

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    All that sounds good but except I'd absolutely erase Jon. The marriage I could live with if absolutely necessary, but my preference would be losing that too. It'd be non-negotiable with me though, in some reality in which I was in charge, where the canon kid would have to go. He's actively hurting Superman's character at this point. Or more apt to say writers are writing him that way, but that's really just semantics as obviously these characters are controlled at the whims of the writers. But after Tomasi and Bendis I don't trust the potential pull that keeps showing up of elevating the Super-kid above the Superman.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    All that sounds good but except I'd absolutely erase Jon. The marriage I could live with if absolutely necessary, but my preference would be losing that too. It'd be non-negotiable with me though, in some reality in which I was in charge, where the canon kid would have to go. He's actively hurting Superman's character at this point. Or more apt to say writers are writing him that way, but that's really just semantics as obviously these characters are controlled at the whims of the writers. But after Tomasi and Bendis I don't trust the potential pull that keeps showing up of elevating the Super-kid above the Superman.
    Personally, I'd prefer a hard reboot and toss everything (or everything except Morrison's Action run). But I'm not sure a whole day-one approach would keep or attract readers, which is why I'd rather set up a new Superman without really making any overt changes to the current status quo. So Lois and Jon would remain, but with their backstories slowly morphed to a new continuity.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Oh so would I. I get the arguments against hard reboots, especially considering the evidence that DC can't do them right, but I still would love to see it tried again. But whether that would be accepted again is of course a major question mark too. Its why in the end I'd still love to see a genuine go at a parallel Earth taking inspiration from Earth One/Two and, the most recent example of course, Ultimate. But I've been barking up that tree for years now. Still a strong push to streamline the mainline Superman too though, he'd still need it.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  6. #36

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    Erasing jon is fine. But, then you need to replace that superboy. Conner is great. But, he has less in common with original superboy. So, if jon is being erased then clark should return as superboy. A superboy adventures is a must for me.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    So ruin Barry to prop up Wally? Not good for me. Though I guess it's unsurprising that people absolutely outraged that their own fave be diminished or killed off to further another are perfectly willing to diminish or kill off others to further their own fave. At least acknowledge the hypocrisy/double-standard.
    With Barry and Wally it is different. Barry was gone for almost 3 decades and for and entire generation Wally was the Flash. If anything Barry being brought back is worse because it was just total fanboy pandering on Johns part.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    And call the new guy something else cause he ain't "superman".also, he can and does all the above things as a married man. He doesn't have to be with maxima for that. Maxima isn't even on top ten of Clark's best love interests.
    No. This is Superman. Maybe not one you want to see, but the Superman you probably want to see is one many people are indifferent to these days. I mean, heck, literally the only people I see reading news papers these days (at my library) are senior citizens.

    No marriage, no kid, and no Lois, and no news paper in this scenario.

  9. #39
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    I'm a huge Troia fan.i wish DC would just go back n give her the Titans of Myth origin were they gave her.her powers and leave it be.i don't know what DC has against the Amazons but they aren't giving much attention n respect that they've given the Krpytonians ans the Dark Knights.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Erasing jon is fine. But, then you need to replace that superboy. Conner is great. But, he has less in common with original superboy. So, if jon is being erased then clark should return as superboy. A superboy adventures is a must for me.
    Well, I'm fine with both being Superboy myself

    I think the fix for Superman, though, is less in the specifics (SuperJon, Wonder Woman romance, Smallville Superboy, T-shirt & Jeans period) and more in just having a stable set of them. I'd want to save what I could of the present status quo just to avoid anther jarring reality shift after like a dozen of them since 2000. But in the end the important point for me is the need to set up a set of agreed upon facts going forward and a creative team dedicated to keeping those facts and building from them rather than replacing them.

    It's the largest problem with most characters- too many variants all being treated equally as the main version. Batboy vs Titan leader, Replacement Flash with his own identity vs also-ran, Babsgirl vs Oracle. No one in charge willing to pick a direction and then just follow it without do-overs,

  11. #41
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    To fix my favorite titles and characters, you would have to undo Crisis on Infinite Earths, write off decades of confusing continuity, and pretty much start over. Which, I'm all for either undoing COIE or doing a hard reboot to clean things up. But not with Didio running the show.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Really, will shipping jsa and titans to other earths give them importance. In universe it might. But, out of universe. they won't. They will push for justice league when the reality is out of the two legacies character teams are the most successful. All jl has is one good animated series and humongous failure of live action in modern times. Titans has a decent live action,young justice, teen titans, teen titans go.. Etc
    I think the JSA would be fine on their own Earth. They started out that way, and some of their relared characters had to be altered or outright erased to accommodate moving to the main Earth (Power Girl, Huntress, Fury) and the Hawks became an absolute nightmare as a result of the merger. They honestly work better there.

    The original Titans need to stay on the main Earth though. Unlike the JSA/Golden Agers, there is no precedent for them being in a seperate dimension. They've always been a connected to the Earth-1 marquee heroes. DC just needs to remember that Titans aren't even a legacy team. Outside of the Fab 5, the biggest characters in that property (Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy, Terra, Jericho) are not legacies nor do they have any ties to the JLA. And the Fab 5 were the first of their kind to bear their respective identities (ex : Dick isn't a legacy, he's the original Robin and Nightwing is its own thing), and grew up to have separate identities from their mentors. They need to play that up and remember that if Marvel can have the Avengers, FF and X-Men be around each other as well, they can do the same with the JL and TT.

    Also DiDio needs to get over the mind set that the Titans entering vague mid-20s age does not make the JL old, since it only makes them vague mid-30 year olds. Jon and Damian make their dads seem older, get rid of them first if anyone has to go.

  13. #43
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    Reset the entire DC line back to 1987.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Best way to fix the Fab 5 and other Titans?

    Kill the Justice League members off. Bruce, Clark, Diana, the older Lanterns, Arthur, J'onn, etc. That way, you can move the Titans up as the new heroes of the world. And DiDio can't whine about the Titans making them look old.
    '

  15. #45
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boltmonster View Post
    Reset the entire DC line back to 1987.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Best way to fix the Fab 5 and other Titans?

    Kill the Justice League members off. Bruce, Clark, Diana, the older Lanterns, Arthur, J'onn, etc. That way, you can move the Titans up as the new heroes of the world. And DiDio can't whine about the Titans making them look old.
    '
    would you look at that, look at all these wet dead babies.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 09-21-2019 at 08:08 PM.
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas is the Midnight Sun of Gotham (respect thread)
    John Stewart is my Lantern.
    Naomi was great, pass it on...
    DC: Batman and the Outsiders, Justice League, Teen Titans, Deathstroke, The Flash, Justice League Odyssey, Doomsday Clock
    Marvel: Immortal Hulk, Miles Morales: Spiderman, Black Panther, Ironheart, Cosmic Ghost Rider etc., Venom, Moon Girl, Avengers
    Anticipated titles: Far Sector, Love Army*, The Other History of DC*

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