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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    That's why having another Earth or two for the legacies makes so much sense all around, IMO.
    Yeah. It seems so obvious. I don't know what the point is of having all these overlapping characters around.

  2. #47
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    I don't think he's necessarily a "broken" or "tarnished" character, just in need of improvement, but I have some suggestions for how to tweak Black Lightning for (imo) the better. First of all, lets get the obvious out the way, get him an ongoing with the big talent, the rising stars, the headliners, stop low-balling these characters with mediocrity and being amazed they don't catch on. speaking of which, KEEP. ISABELLA. AWAY. FROM HIM. that's no disrespect to Isabella, he's given us one of DC's most iconic black characters and he has done his best to champion for BL to be treated with dignity but he's had umpteen shots at Black Lightning; it's time to let go and let fresh voices take a shot at fleshing him out.

    After that, we canonize Freeland, Georgia in the DC universe and move him in. Black Lightning's stock is in a good place, he's chairman of the Justice League on Young Justice, he's leading the Outsiders, and his show (despite an admitted low bar) is the most consistent in terms of quality on the CW and draws a decent amount of eyes and ears to the character. I think one of the smartest things the show gave the character was a setting like Freeland that was fleshed out and lived in, and felt distinctly like his domain. I think that bit of synergy would help the character, and under the right writer could translate that authenticity to the comics iteration. also make Freeland the metahuman city, Central City has the rogues, Gotham has corruption and misery, Metropolis is the city of tomorrow, Freeland should be the focal point of metahuman activity. We make Freeland like New York in the sense that all the freaks and misfits come here and the city accommodates for that kind of mishmash; only it's open metahumans instead of subcultures. This positions Black Lightning to be the man of the people for metas, kinda like the Outsiders were on YJ:O, and this sets him in a place of significance with a broad niche of his own. Everyone looks up to Superman, everyone loves Wonder Woman, everyone fears Batman, but we could have Black Lightning be the guy young wayward metas wanna be like. maybe it's greenlight, maybe it's metahuman trafficking or some other crime but meta-crime and protection should be his angle.

    next, I'd establish Lynn Stewart as the sister of John Stewart in Freeland (she could've moved there no need to retcon everything about John). Now I don't mind if they don't get together right away, ideally we'd build her up in his supporting cast as a character before we got them together anyway, but theyvneed to eventually be together. she should be his Lois Lane, his Steve Trevor, his Iris West, his Apollo, his Mera, his Carol Ferris, his whoever Batman is piping down this decade, you get the idea. She needs to feel as real as those other characters, misadventures, occasional powers, and all that, independent of Jeff sometimes too.

    this is controversial but I'm fine with Thunder and Lightning not being born yet and not coming along for a while. I say let them be cool cameo (flashforward, elseworld, multiverse, etc.) characters for a while until we can find a natural way to bring them in as Teen Titan age heroes.

    Next, start throwing Jeff in more diverse and unusual situations. He doesn't need to just be running the streets and busting up gangs, put him in a different dimension, have him fight an Elder God, put him in space, have him fight Darkseid, ok that last one may be too outlandish but you get my drift, switch it up. I'm trying to set Jeff up to be a fully fleshed out character, let's see him test his limits in different intriguing ways.

    this is next one is a small tweak that I think would go a long way: give him back the black lightning. yes, it has been only rarely used and has never been established thoroughly in-panel but I think this small change would distinguish Black Lightning from all of the clones he's spawned. It gives him a visual distinction that would look awesome across all mediums (comics, cartoons, TV shows, movies) and make him pop more. Also, it gives him a reason besides his race that he's called Black Lightning and, depending how they explain it(because they would need to in order to firmly establish it), the black lightning could add an extra dimension to his powers that could make him a whole different tier of powerhouse in the wider DC landscape. and finally, induct him into the Justice League and let him be on the main roster for a while.

    I know it feels kinda like a fanfic-y checklist but I truly think doing these things would be the best way to position Black Lightning to reach his full potential.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 09-23-2019 at 10:16 AM.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

    also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.

    currently following:
    • DC: Red Hood: The Hill
    • Marvel: TBD
    • Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force

    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  3. #48
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    If titans and other legacies go to another the dick will go as well. Cyborg should be moved as well.

  4. #49
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    the only way to fix the Green Lantern mythos is to get someone like Johnathan Hickman to reconsolidate the full franchise and it's mythology but unlike with Johns who (even though he did way more than just this) singled out one Lantern as the focal point, swapping out one "greatest one" trope for another, do away with the notion of a "main" Lantern and recontextualize it as a true-blue ensemble where the "main" is whoever you (the reader) gravitate toward. there should be two Lantern books at all times, the Corp book and the solo ongoing, and the solo ongoing should rotate out who is the star of it every few story arcs so all of them can be treated fairly.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 09-22-2019 at 09:15 PM.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

    also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.

    currently following:
    • DC: Red Hood: The Hill
    • Marvel: TBD
    • Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force

    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Rule #1: Infinite multiverse. Every previous version gets it's own universe. Pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis. New 52. No one should lose "their" version of their favorite character. This constant reboot crap where half your collection is no longer canon is ridiculous. I think that's something everyone can get behind. I think DC is reluctant to do this because they are afraid of people asking when "their" version will be the "official" version again. Sorry, but it won't. This is the closest you're going to get. Vertigo gets it's own universe. Swamp Thing. Constantine. Shade. All live in their own "horror" universe separate from the main DCU. Superhero comics can exist there but not actual superheroes. You can reference Superman or Batman as comic book characters but they don't actually exist there. Ditto no fictional cities. Milestone. Wildstorm. Every Elseworld. All get their own universes.

    Rule #2: One hard reboot and that's it. Each character gets their own OGN with their new origins. Each one called GENESIS. So you have "Superman GENESIS" "Batman GENESIS" and so on. Every comic after that takes place ten years later. No "Crisis" or other trigger event. The previous versions just plain never existed. Except in the multiverse. Superman is married with no kids. Damien is Robin. The Kents are still alive. Barry is still alive but Wally is also a Flash of Keystone City. Yes, there's a JSA but they are mostly retired. Those who are still alive. Past stories will be kept on a case by case basis. The Super-marriage is kept, obviously. So is his Death. Jason Todd's death is also kept. It's basically a "clutter Earth" that tries to keep all the best elements from each version.

    Rule #3: Fire current editorial. They don't know what they're doing and they're just fighting with each other anyway. They're just trying to turn it into their own personal fan fiction. Didio, Lee, even Johns. All out. When the original Time/Warner deal went through back in the nineties, Jannette Kahn went to bat for DC. I don't see any of these people doing that effectively. Whoever has the best ideas gets their stories made.

    Rule #4: Kids books. Anthology books. OGNs. More things like the Wal-Mart books. All these are good outreach attempts to new and casual readers. A new kids line is necessary. This is one of the few things DC is doing right now that I agree with.

    Rule #5: WB needs to do their part in this and, quite frankly, they aren't. We need more cartoons, a coherent movie line, and we need them to step up and care about DC as more than just an IP farmhouse for more movies. Right now, they don't. Marvel Studios is basically an arm of Marvel comics. They're doing what they think is best for the comics. I can't say the same for DC and WB. I thought it was strange that they blamed DC for their failures when it was WB who has the more visible public presence. It's the movies that are pulling in millions of dollars, not the comics. Throw your print division a bone by getting your **** together on the movies. This might mean a hard reboot of those as well. They're doing pretty good on this with TV shows but it's the movies where the real money is. DC and Warners need to sit down and hash out how they can help the comics out with the movies. That means asking the DC folks what they need. Let the comics people in the writers room.
    Assassinate Putin!

  6. #51
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    For Superman:

    -Bring back his time as Superboy
    -Bring back him as being the reason the Legion of Superheroes was founded and his time as a member fo the Legion.
    -De-age Jon Kent

    For Supergirl:

    -Bring back Midvale as the place where she grew up. Also, use Midvale as the place where she lives (she could commute between Midvale and National City to use both as a setting for the character)
    -Bring back her time with the Legion of Superheroes.
    “Somewhere, in our darkest night, we made up the story of a man who will never let us down.”

    - Grant Morrison on Superman

  7. #52
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    I hate to interrupt the general displeasure about things being shown here, but I had an idea.

    I think I'd fix Checkmate... but really any intelligence organization would do.

    I'd basically research everything that's happened with them and write a fresh book on which Checkmate recruits experts and field agents alike and well as some of the more rarely appearing metas.
    It would definently have some heavy hitters on the team but really it would be book that explored different genres on different arcs.
    I'd have Jason Blood... and The Atomic Skull... do a buddy cop story.

    I'd have an actual horror story about the whereabouts and fate of Paul Kirk Manhunter.

    A good way to explain what I'm thinking is...

    Stormwatch + Marvel Comics presents + the SCP foundation.

    I'd take characters that aren't being used or who are vastly underused and tell stories about them.

    And all through the lens of Checkmate I'd explore the DC universe in a way that gets glossed over just telling the story of bats and the League in perpetuity.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  8. #53
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Give them their own solo title set in a (slightly) AU setting, start them from scratch, introduce all the changes I want (while still not technically being main canon), run for exactly 100 issues and age in real-time as much as possible, and allow for any of my new aspects popular enough with the masses to leak over to the main canon titles.

    Basically the Marvel Ultimates Nick Fury approach.
    Last edited by daBronzeBomma; 09-22-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Do a Books of Magic II, using the structure of Annihilation and/or Seven Soldiers of Victory.

    One main book: Books of Magic.
    Four secondary titles: Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Constantine and Night Force.
    One spin-off title: Dr. Fate, which would continue the story and lead into the Book of Destiny, the next cycle of books.

    One main book: Book of Destiny
    Four secondary titles: Arion, Faust, Amethyst and Phantom Stranger.
    One tie-in title: Dr. Fate.
    One spin-off title: Shadowpact.

    Dr. Fate and Shadowpact would continue the stories of Books of Magic and Book of Destiny, and depending on sales could lead to a third cycle, with another ongoing title getting launched.

    Also included in the first cycle would be a JL dossier on the magic community of the DC Universe, written (and narrated) by Zatanna.

    Creators tapped for the books would be Roger Stern (for Dr. Fate), Keith Giffen (for Zatanna), Grant Morrison (for Night Force), Matt Wagner (for Constantine), Christopher Rice (for Faust), Walt Simonson (for Amethyst, also doing the art), Peter David (for Arion), and Geoff Johns (for Phantom Stranger).
    Ongoing Dr. Fate and Shadowpact would be Roger Stern writing, Walt Simonson and Bill Sienkiewicz on covers, with art by a new DC artist with a style similar to Simonson.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Rule #1: Infinite multiverse. Every previous version gets it's own universe. Pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis. New 52. No one should lose "their" version of their favorite character. This constant reboot crap where half your collection is no longer canon is ridiculous. I think that's something everyone can get behind. I think DC is reluctant to do this because they are afraid of people asking when "their" version will be the "official" version again. Sorry, but it won't. This is the closest you're going to get. Vertigo gets it's own universe. Swamp Thing. Constantine. Shade. All live in their own "horror" universe separate from the main DCU. Superhero comics can exist there but not actual superheroes. You can reference Superman or Batman as comic book characters but they don't actually exist there. Ditto no fictional cities. Milestone. Wildstorm. Every Elseworld. All get their own universes.

    Rule #2: One hard reboot and that's it. Each character gets their own OGN with their new origins. Each one called GENESIS. So you have "Superman GENESIS" "Batman GENESIS" and so on. Every comic after that takes place ten years later. No "Crisis" or other trigger event. The previous versions just plain never existed. Except in the multiverse. Superman is married with no kids. Damien is Robin. The Kents are still alive. Barry is still alive but Wally is also a Flash of Keystone City. Yes, there's a JSA but they are mostly retired. Those who are still alive. Past stories will be kept on a case by case basis. The Super-marriage is kept, obviously. So is his Death. Jason Todd's death is also kept. It's basically a "clutter Earth" that tries to keep all the best elements from each version.

    Rule #3: Fire current editorial. They don't know what they're doing and they're just fighting with each other anyway. They're just trying to turn it into their own personal fan fiction. Didio, Lee, even Johns. All out. When the original Time/Warner deal went through back in the nineties, Jannette Kahn went to bat for DC. I don't see any of these people doing that effectively. Whoever has the best ideas gets their stories made.

    Rule #4: Kids books. Anthology books. OGNs. More things like the Wal-Mart books. All these are good outreach attempts to new and casual readers. A new kids line is necessary. This is one of the few things DC is doing right now that I agree with.

    Rule #5: WB needs to do their part in this and, quite frankly, they aren't. We need more cartoons, a coherent movie line, and we need them to step up and care about DC as more than just an IP farmhouse for more movies. Right now, they don't. Marvel Studios is basically an arm of Marvel comics. They're doing what they think is best for the comics. I can't say the same for DC and WB. I thought it was strange that they blamed DC for their failures when it was WB who has the more visible public presence. It's the movies that are pulling in millions of dollars, not the comics. Throw your print division a bone by getting your **** together on the movies. This might mean a hard reboot of those as well. They're doing pretty good on this with TV shows but it's the movies where the real money is. DC and Warners need to sit down and hash out how they can help the comics out with the movies. That means asking the DC folks what they need. Let the comics people in the writers room.
    I agree with everything you said, but I don't quite understand what you mean by "no fictional cities." Are you saying you don't want places like Gotham to exist at all or should that at least be an exception?

  11. #56
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Rule #1: Infinite multiverse. Every previous version gets it's own universe. Pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis. New 52. No one should lose "their" version of their favorite character. This constant reboot crap where half your collection is no longer canon is ridiculous. I think that's something everyone can get behind. I think DC is reluctant to do this because they are afraid of people asking when "their" version will be the "official" version again. Sorry, but it won't. This is the closest you're going to get. Vertigo gets it's own universe. Swamp Thing. Constantine. Shade. All live in their own "horror" universe separate from the main DCU. Superhero comics can exist there but not actual superheroes. You can reference Superman or Batman as comic book characters but they don't actually exist there. Ditto no fictional cities. Milestone. Wildstorm. Every Elseworld. All get their own universes.

    Rule #2: One hard reboot and that's it. Each character gets their own OGN with their new origins. Each one called GENESIS. So you have "Superman GENESIS" "Batman GENESIS" and so on. Every comic after that takes place ten years later. No "Crisis" or other trigger event. The previous versions just plain never existed. Except in the multiverse. Superman is married with no kids. Damien is Robin. The Kents are still alive. Barry is still alive but Wally is also a Flash of Keystone City. Yes, there's a JSA but they are mostly retired. Those who are still alive. Past stories will be kept on a case by case basis. The Super-marriage is kept, obviously. So is his Death. Jason Todd's death is also kept. It's basically a "clutter Earth" that tries to keep all the best elements from each version.

    Rule #3: Fire current editorial. They don't know what they're doing and they're just fighting with each other anyway. They're just trying to turn it into their own personal fan fiction. Didio, Lee, even Johns. All out. When the original Time/Warner deal went through back in the nineties, Jannette Kahn went to bat for DC. I don't see any of these people doing that effectively. Whoever has the best ideas gets their stories made.

    Rule #4: Kids books. Anthology books. OGNs. More things like the Wal-Mart books. All these are good outreach attempts to new and casual readers. A new kids line is necessary. This is one of the few things DC is doing right now that I agree with.

    Rule #5: WB needs to do their part in this and, quite frankly, they aren't. We need more cartoons, a coherent movie line, and we need them to step up and care about DC as more than just an IP farmhouse for more movies. Right now, they don't. Marvel Studios is basically an arm of Marvel comics. They're doing what they think is best for the comics. I can't say the same for DC and WB. I thought it was strange that they blamed DC for their failures when it was WB who has the more visible public presence. It's the movies that are pulling in millions of dollars, not the comics. Throw your print division a bone by getting your **** together on the movies. This might mean a hard reboot of those as well. They're doing pretty good on this with TV shows but it's the movies where the real money is. DC and Warners need to sit down and hash out how they can help the comics out with the movies. That means asking the DC folks what they need. Let the comics people in the writers room.
    I am ok with everything except for superman not having kids. What's the point of just a married superman? There was an era full of it. If damian is allowed then jon should be there.i also hate jason being dead. Jason is my favourite batcharacter out there except for dick to me. Will the genisis be the main earth?if it is. It not going to work out. They won't put out stories for other earths that frequently. As long as the main earth concept exists other earths will always play second fiddle.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-23-2019 at 04:31 AM.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    The Silencer.

    I would build upon the events of her book and Event Leviathan but doing away with the more sci-fi/magical Kaijus elements of it. It all happened, but it isn't the case now.

    Basically, someone has been gathering the dead al'Ghul "half-breeds" (Raze and Smoke, plus possibly one or two others who also have interesting meta-humans abilities) and has been reviving them or trying to. And each one of them knows of Honor's current life, one way or another. So she has to take them down, again, or prevent their revival, if possible.

    I'd try to channel the John Wick vibe of this character while also keeping (and in fact developing) her relationship with her clueless family.

    And to add tension, I'd have most of the events taking place in Metropolis, where she has moved to both try and get away from any remnant of old Leviathan and feel safe in "Mr. Super" hometown.

    Of course, I'd make use of her powers and actions to somewhat pit her against Superman, but only in an indirect way. As in : how does one assassinate a target in a town where Superman lives ? Each and every of her "siblings" also having powers which make them able to hide underneath Superman's nose if they remain careful, it wouldn't be gun fights everywhere, anytime, but more of a subdued approach, where violence is almost cold, really gruesome, when unleashed.

    Once the first "mega-arc" be resolved, I'd have the Silencer squaring against the invisible mafia and other dark elements of the City of Tomorrow who generally avoid the notice of the Man of Steel.

  13. #58
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    Powerless will be adapted as a fun loving comic mini/series which shall be as opposed in tone and treatment to **** like Ennis's Boys as possible.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Since Nightwing's coming back what I want in the short term is to continue with the idea that Nightwing being one of the most connected person in DCU to face the enemy who wants his information. Just not Percy since Nightwing shouldn't be anti-technology or sound like an old man.

    In longer-term, if Bendis is not doing it, I want him to connect with Morrison's Kathy Kane and rebuild Spyral as secret agency that benefits the superhero world, such as tracking down wild metahuman, the people targeting them, and keeping the secrets safe.

    Titans already have the right idea by making them the trainer of new metahuman, and with Nightwing heading Titans and connected to Spyral the two books can have a tighter relation. Not Dan Abnett though. Any writer whose go-to plot is to create conflict with Justice League, especially where Titans are depicted as subservient and the League as hypocritical ass is a big no. They're all adults and should be beyond this, especially since the JL in JL books are not like that.

    Then, if anyone, whether from the editorial in general or Batman want to have a crossover or event including Nightwing, they need to stop asking DC for ideas. Editors edit, writers write. Then if they need to incapacitate someone in one book, pick the supporting cast of that book, not the main character of another book, or if they really have to because it makes sense to the story, let the main character of another book do a time skip and move on with their own plot.

    And if they have to ask why I just need to point out that Nightwing actually lost readers when they use that kind of crap.

    I mean it's not like half of Batman readers read Nightwing anyway. They won't care if the books are not perfectly aligned.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Since Nightwing's coming back what I want in the short term is to continue with the idea that Nightwing being one of the most connected person in DCU to face the enemy who wants his information. Just not Percy since Nightwing shouldn't be anti-technology or sound like an old man.

    In longer-term, if Bendis is not doing it, I want him to connect with Morrison's Kathy Kane and rebuild Spyral as secret agency that benefits the superhero world, such as tracking down wild metahuman, the people targeting them, and keeping the secrets safe.

    Titans already have the right idea by making them the trainer of new metahuman, and with Nightwing heading Titans and connected to Spyral the two books can have a tighter relation. Not Dan Abnett though. Any writer whose go-to plot is to create conflict with Justice League, especially where Titans are depicted as subservient and the League as hypocritical ass is a big no. They're all adults and should be beyond this, especially since the JL in JL books are not like that.

    Then, if anyone, whether from the editorial in general or Batman want to have a crossover or event including Nightwing, they need to stop asking DC for ideas. Editors edit, writers write. Then if they need to incapacitate someone in one book, pick the supporting cast of that book, not the main character of another book, or if they really have to because it makes sense to the story, let the main character of another book do a time skip and move on with their own plot.

    And if they have to ask why I just need to point out that Nightwing actually lost readers when they use that kind of crap.

    I mean it's not like half of Batman readers read Nightwing anyway. They won't care if the books are not perfectly aligned.
    The times when a Titans team should answer to the JL is if they're carrying out a mission for them OR a black ops team that answers to the JL(see the YJ cartoon), if the roster is comprised of characters who actually need the supervision because of their pasts or if the team has literally gone off the rails(see Damian's TT). All of this can be done without making the JL look like hypocrites.

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