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  1. #46
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    It is. A good defense attorney could easily spin the Joker's actions as being born from a deranged mind. For starters, he took a dip in a chemical bath. An experience that is highly traumatic. They could also argue that the chemicals screwed with him on a biological level. Fundamentally altering his brain chemistry.

    If the Joker just straight up killed (shooting them etc) people, he could be in trouble. But the way in which he goes about killing them often involves methods that are so bat-shit crazy that there is no doubt he isn't right in the top block.
    Like jetengine said, it's not enough to just be deranged or traumatized or whatever. You have to literally be so far gone that you can't comprehend what you're doing, what the consequences are or why you're being punished.

    Joker running around doing things expressly to break people's spirit/sanity/sense of morality/etc. shows that he understands very well what he's doing and what the consequences of his actions are. He just doesn't give a damn.

    Besides, I'm pretty sure Joker's just straight-up shot or stabbed people plenty of times.

  2. #47
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    Insanity or diminshed capacity is tricky and standards vary. Usually:

    1. Has to be aware that the actions are wrong
    2. Has to be aware of the consequences of one's actions

    3 - this is debatable - can't be the consequence of irresistible impulse. This does happen in the real world.

    He's sane by 1 and 2. Lawyers would try for 3. Anyway, he's just kept as a money machine. I personally have little interest in Joker stories on a continuing basis. There are a few which stood out but the endless evil plot - yawn.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Hitman is a dc property.



    He killed kingpin right before the last secret wars but his death was reset back by mr fantastic along with everyone else.

    It's comics so yeah jokers alive (he is batman biggest bad guy so they can't kill him off for good. Even if they do he will be back!) but in the real world they would have killed him along time ago. He has killed way to many people by this point.
    That hardly counts when everything was dying anyway regardless. Lol. If he were to pull that off now and take out both zemo and Kingpin in his current series like he took out Mandarin in the beginning of the series then I will acknowledge it. Lol

  4. #49
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    You would think maybe a cop(s) would have killed him when he was taken into custody or some Arkham guard would have done something.

  5. #50
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    I chalk it up to the side-effects of time not really passing in comics. In comics, Joker hasn't been around for 80 years. He's been around for an ambiguous handful of years. As a corollary to that, he hasn't killed as many people as you think. While no individual death has been retconned, somehow they don't add up to as much as you'd think. Somehow the numbers only add up to being a bit higher than some mafioso who are free in the real world. In a world where alien invasions are routine, someone who usually gets hauled back to Arkham fairly quickly and has, somehow, only killed a little more than a real world mafioso, isn't worth obsessing over. Yes, he keeps escaping, but those occasions also, somehow, don't add up to as much as you'd think.

    In short, you have accept that time not really passing also means that several related maths don't grow much as well.

  6. #51
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    In-universe, Grant Morrison in JLA gave a good argument: Super-heroes have learned that Super-heroes and Super-villains resurrect all the time, it's almost a rule. So if you kill Joker, not only you accomplish nothing, but in the DC universe he can come back worse than ever.
    I try to improve my english, feel free to correct me by DM if you see some mistakes !

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I chalk it up to the side-effects of time not really passing in comics. In comics, Joker hasn't been around for 80 years. He's been around for an ambiguous handful of years. As a corollary to that, he hasn't killed as many people as you think. While no individual death has been retconned, somehow they don't add up to as much as you'd think. Somehow the numbers only add up to being a bit higher than some mafioso who are free in the real world. In a world where alien invasions are routine, someone who usually gets hauled back to Arkham fairly quickly and has, somehow, only killed a little more than a real world mafioso, isn't worth obsessing over. Yes, he keeps escaping, but those occasions also, somehow, don't add up to as much as you'd think.

    In short, you have accept that time not really passing also means that several related maths don't grow much as well.
    This is the right answer.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    Lol wouldn't help matters. When has Frank managed to kill the likes of Kingpin and Green Goblin? Forget them he hasn't even managed to kill the jackal or Bullseye when he engaged with them.
    When the Punisher went after Kingpin back in the early days they did the whole Fisk is a necessary evil thing to save him from being killed off.

    Kingpin, Green Goblin and Bullseye have died before and came back.

    The Punisher generally doesn't go after the 'cape' villains. Supervillains are usually Superhero territory as the Punishers thing is organized crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    My understanding, at least for some stories, is because Gordon does not like killing or want to kill anyone, and signing off on their execution would essentially make him responsible, no matter if its someone as reprehensible as the Joker.
    I know Gordon's stance is supposed to be seen as noble but to me it just sounds like a cop out. If you become a police officer then you know that means you may be in a position in which you may have to take a life to save another. It makes it looks like Gordon is putting his personal principles or feelings above protecting the citizens and carrying out his duties.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    When the Punisher went after Kingpin back in the early days they did the whole Fisk is a necessary evil thing to save him from being killed off.

    Kingpin, Green Goblin and Bullseye have died before and came back.

    The Punisher generally doesn't go after the 'cape' villains. Supervillains are usually Superhero territory as the Punishers thing is organized crime.
    Tell that to cc008. He was under the impression that the Punisher being in the DCU would lead to a end of super crime.

  10. #55
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    Joker has killed FAR more people than any run of the mill mafioso. He's at least the most prolific serial killer on the planet. And it's also weird no superpowered villain ever did away with him in Arkham or jail because he is so f@cking annoying.

  11. #56
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    I think you missed the point of my post.

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