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  1. #1
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    Default Why is Spider-Man excluded from The Avengers, X-Men, and FF?

    I think that Spider-Man would do so much better(sales) if Marvel avoids repeating the same past stories. When was the last time Spidey encountered The Morlocks? All I see is segregation among Marvel's editorial departments instead of partnering up and exchanging characters and story ideas that might do better respectively. Marvel is a business. Yet, they don't treat it like one. If they want their books to sell as much as the Japanese Manga, they need to upgrade their business model as it's been stuck in the past since the early 1990's. What would be an improvement is to make Spider-Man a member of The Mighty Avengers, which Marvel hasn't done since Bendis left the series. Segregation equals a loss of opportunities to make the readers buy the product. I never understood why Spider-Man is excluded from The Avengers, Fantastic Four, and The X-Men. Peter would fit in well with either of them as he would bring his fanbase with him. Kaine Parker would fit in well with X-Force.
    Last edited by Darthfury78; 08-28-2020 at 02:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Just going by the current run, you have...
    • Spidey and Black Cat dealing with the Thieves' Guild (normally exclusive to the X-Men, having debuted in Gambit's series).
    • Arcade is one of the main villains of the Hunted storyline alongside Kraven (also X-Men, but he - rather infamously - branched out to teen heroes in Avengers Arena).
    • Kraven tussles with the High Evolutionary (general MU with heavy X-Men leanings).
    • Kraven also captures the Owl (Daredevil) and Serpent Solutions (Captain America).
    • Taskmaster and Black Ant appear as opponents frequently enough that they're practically rogues in this run (Avengers/general MU).

    There are also cameos and shout-outs to the wider world. Spider-Man never needed the shared universe as much as others, yet he certainly is “segregated” like you say. I don’t even know what you mean.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Spider-Man is the cameo king, appearing in many books and events over the years. He also joined most of these teams at one point, the answer to sales isn't sticking Spider-Man in everything permanently.
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  4. #4
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    The danger of franchise mixing is that either fans of one thing have to read about a million other things or nothing significant can happen to characters in their sister franchises. The answer is a bit of both, you can put characters on the Avengers to show their role and show that it's a shared universe, but a Spider-Man fan shouldn't have to read Avengers all the time to understand the major events of Spider-Man's life or his corner of the universe.
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  5. #5
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    I do like Kaine on X-Force though, he’d be a good fit. He’s a loosely-heroic outsider, and him not being a mutant would further put him on the outs with his teammates. However, it might be tricky given the whole situation with non-mutants in general being excluded from Krakoa at the moment.

    Plus, have they done anything with him lately?

  6. #6
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Spider-Man is Marvel's one evergreen IP. It's never been cancelled like the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four. The merchandising has filled Marvel's coffers for decades. He'll be fine.

  7. #7
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I do like Kaine on X-Force though, he’d be a good fit. He’s a loosely-heroic outsider, and him not being a mutant would further put him on the outs with his teammates. However, it might be tricky given the whole situation with non-mutants in general being excluded from Krakoa at the moment.

    Plus, have they done anything with him lately?
    Not since Spider-Geddon and the Spider-Force mini tying into that written by Christopher Priest. That said, Priest had an interesting take on Kaine, portraying him as someone willing to ruthlessly manipulate his fellow Spiders through emotional blackmail (telling Jessica Drew that the Inheritors would come for her infant son who inherited spider-powers from her unless she helped him take them out) and withholding information that might've made them back out of the mission (that one Inheritor's favorite prey was children, and one of the Spiders that was recruited was a barely teenaged Peter Parker who ran away from an abusive home and changed his name to "Charlie," implicitly meant to lure that Inheritor into killing range). Could see that dynamic working on an X-Force-style team of anti-heroes willing to get their hands dirty and otherwise cross lines for the greater good.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    What are you talking about? Just going by the current run, you have...
    • Spidey and Black Cat dealing with the Thieves' Guild (normally exclusive to the X-Men, having debuted in Gambit's series).
    • Arcade is one of the main villains of the Hunted storyline alongside Kraven (also X-Men, but he - rather infamously - branched out to teen heroes in Avengers Arena).
    • Kraven tussles with the High Evolutionary (general MU with heavy X-Men leanings).
    • Kraven also captures the Owl (Daredevil) and Serpent Solutions (Captain America).
    • Taskmaster and Black Ant appear as opponents frequently enough that they're practically rogues in this run (Avengers/general MU).

    There are also cameos and shout-outs to the wider world. Spider-Man never needed the shared universe as much as others, yet he certainly is “segregated” like you say. I don’t even know what you mean.
    Not sure...but I think that is a different Thieves Guild.

  9. #9
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Is it an automatic guarantee that guesting Spider-Man regularly in these team's titles would up the sales of the titles concerned? Is there any study that supports this?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Is it an automatic guarantee that guesting Spider-Man regularly in these team's titles would up the sales of the titles concerned? Is there any study that supports this?
    Yes. Spider-Man has a large supporting regular fanbase. If Spider-Man is a reoccurring guest, sales will spike. A good example as Brian Reed's run on Ms. Marvel solo series. Everytime when Spider-Man appeared (a total of 7 times throughout), sales would increased. Why Peter Parker never appeared as a regular guest in the pages of She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, and Captain Marvel is perplexing. He's close friends with each of them. Yet, no writer on those books wants to make him a reoccurring guest? It might help out with their declining sales number if they can create a story that would include Spider-Man because his audience would boost the book's sales numbers, provided the story is very good.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Yes. Spider-Man has a large supporting regular fanbase. If Spider-Man is a reoccurring guest, sales will spike. A good example as Brian Reed's run on Ms. Marvel solo series. Everytime when Spider-Man appeared (a total of 7 times throughout), sales would increased. Why Peter Parker never appeared as a regular guest in the pages of She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, and Captain Marvel is perplexing. He's close friends with each of them. Yet, no writer on those books wants to make him a reoccurring guest? It might help out with their declining sales number if they can create a story that would include Spider-Man because his audience would boost the book's sales numbers, provided the story is very good.
    It might be they don't want him to overshadow the rest. It gets into Batman territory. Sooner or later everyone has to stand on their own.

    7 times in a run is fine. That makes those appearances special.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Is it an automatic guarantee that guesting Spider-Man regularly in these team's titles would up the sales of the titles concerned? Is there any study that supports this?
    NO such study.

    However the idea is you throw his name on it and you get an increase in orders be it trades of floppies. Same thing you see with Batman & The Signal.

    Folks who NORMALLY don't care for Duke Thomas (Signal) read the book. I can go to Barnes & Noble and get that book. I couldn't say that if it was just Signal.

    Some folks it won't make a difference-those 3 teams don't need him. Sales won't go up or down if you do.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    What would be an improvement is to make Spider-Man a member of The Mighty Avengers, which Marvel hasn't done since Bendis left the series.
    Say what...?


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Spider-Man is Marvel's one evergreen IP. It's never been cancelled like the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four. The merchandising has filled Marvel's coffers for decades. He'll be fine.
    Avengers has never been cancelled either.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Say what...?

    Avengers has never been cancelled either.



    Well, technically it was. Marvel cancelled the Avengers in Sept 1996 and then the rights were given to Image for 1 year as part of the Heroes Reborn imprint. So Marvel didn't produce an Avengers title for that time period.

  15. #15
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Well, technically it was. Marvel cancelled the Avengers in Sept 1996 and then the rights were given to Image for 1 year as part of the Heroes Reborn imprint. So Marvel didn't produce an Avengers title for that time period.
    I think you'll find that those comics still have Marvel's logo on the cover, not Image's. It was a relaunch just like the more recent ones, not a cancellation. I'd only consider a title cancelled if it ends and doesn't relaunch immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Not sure...but I think that is a different Thieves Guild.
    Nope. Different branch (New York vs New Orleans), but it's the same guild.
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